Author Topic: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.  (Read 21395 times)

FreedomStands

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2614
  • Karma +0/-0
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2015, 01:31:44 PM »
Peace all,

I would like to propose a community project that will not only help unite us, but bring others back onto the path of true Islam.

Sunni is the largest sect of Islam in the world.  I propose we all research and compile a book addressing every single claim of the Sunnis and directly refute them.

As Martin Luther went around and tacked his 99 Thesis to the door of every church he could, we too must take initiative and bring our finished product to every doorstep and outlet we can.

As far as topics, we leave no stone unturned - Bukhari, Muslim, the claimed science behind the hadith, Shariah, the pillars, Qur'anic aspects, etc.

Qur'an Alone Muslims are still defined as a cult under Rashad Khalifa - to be taken seriously we must unite and put forth a single doctrine.  For every subject we attack, we provide an answer that is universally agreed upon.  Let's take back Islam!

Who's with me?  :yay:

Just spam stuff about the Qur'an everywhere, spam Qur'an quotes online, say there are some people who believe in what the Qur'an says but don't follow the Hadith or believe in it.

Not a single person will be changed by any of those efforts, but at least the Qur'an will be all over the place to annoy people.
Read these
Easy Religion in a Nutshell
http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-59014.html
This may answer many questions!
https://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-505254.html
Kindly email me: foxyfoxgames@gmail.com

Timotheus

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 852
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2015, 11:44:54 PM »
i think that if people want to believe they will, if they dont it does not matter what proof you show them they will not believe.
What could i say that is better than what God has already informed us of?
Follow God
Seek His guidance, the only guidance
Glory and Praise be to God, rabbil Aalameen

Taro Hiroshi

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2016, 02:55:42 PM »
Hi brothers and sisters, 

This is a special post. I'd like to share some of my personal thoughts and views with you. But first, I'd like to share some of my thoughts and views regarding the OP's project.

I think this is a great project. It's a very practical/pragmatic project, in my opinion. I think this project can yield great results. But since this project is gargantuan, I think it will be a herculean task to accomplish. In order to bring this project to fruition, I think several persons must collaborate on it. For example, if several persons cooperate/collaborate on this project, and each chooses/specializes in one/few fields, and then put in the right amount of effort, then I think this project will be accomplished/finished in less than 2 years.

Personally, I am willing to work with everyone, probably all members on this forum in regard to spreading the message of Al-Quran in the future. If the truth be told, I have just been in touch with a few members on this forum until now. And I have never met anyone from this forum in real life. Since I returned to this forum in 2013, I have kept my distance from some people in the online Quranic community. The reason why I did that, is because I wasn't sure who to trust. I wasn't sure who is honest and trustworthy/sincere. It seemed that certain members on this forum tried to make a comparison or compete with me. And it seemed that certain members judged me without knowing me. Therefore, I became very cautious and skeptical. And perhaps a little cynical and pessimistic. So I kept my distance from some people in the online Quranic community. Also, I felt that certain members misinterpreted my intentions on writing posts on this forum. If the truth be told, I haven't written any posts on this forum to show-off. I am passionate about islam. That's all. I just want to share my passion with other people who are interested in learning about islam/quran. This is something I love to do. This is something I want to do forever. I am just a student of Al-Quran, like everyone else here. I don't believe I have all the answers. As a matter of fact, I think I know very little in regard to "islam based on the Quran." Because there is so much to know, so much to explore, so much to learn and so much to discover. I sincerely believe that all of us can teach something to each other and learn something from each other. I swear to the God (wallahi).

As I have mentioned earlier, I felt that certain members misinterpreted my intentions on writing posts on this forum. Therefore, I have only felt comfortable keeping in touch (corresponding) with a few members on this forum. The reason why I only felt comfortable keeping in touch with a few members on this forum, is because I felt that they knew my intentions. But I guess I could have been more tolerant and open-minded. It seems that people sometimes build walls between each other that never existed before they started to build them. These walls don't need to exist, in my opinion. And some of these walls are based on culture/tradition, not on Al-Quran. I think it's unecessary to build such walls. I think people have the choice to build walls or build bridges between each other. What people choose to build seems to be based on their open-mindedness, their flexibility, their patience, their humility and their level of tolerance. 

As I have mentioned earlier, I am passionate about islam. And my aim/objective is to spread the message of Al-Quran to others. I want to help others. I want to show others how wonderful/beautiful, powerful and life-changing the message of Al-Quran is. I want to do this before I leave the earth. I want to do this while I am here on the earth. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the world have bad/negative perceptions about islam/Quran. There is an "information war" out there. But I believe we are wery lucky to live in the "information age." Because the internet enables us to spread the message of Al-Quran to others and educate them about "islam based on the Quran." This life is short, in my opinion. And I think this life is just a test. Therefore, I think it's very important to help as many people as one can (do as many good deeds as possible) before one leaves the earth. I believe all of us can make a difference in the world. 

The internet enables us to reach as many people as possible in the shortest amount of time. I think if we spread the message of Al-Quran to others, we can change the course of history. If we use Al-Quran as our criterion, we can expose many myths and correct widespread misinformation and misconceptions about islam/quran. It seems that Al-Quran is the most powerful tool we can use. History suggests that before the advent of islam, the arabs had a primitive and backwards social order. And ignorance was widespread. But after they received the revelations of the God, their whole society was transformed. During the golden age of islam, arabs became the most advanced, most civilized, most cultured and most enlightened group of all the people. Al-Quran is so powerful that it's message transformed the arab world completely. It was the message of Al-Quran that gave birth to the first golden age. Hence, if the message of Al-Quran is spread to a wide audience around the world, a second golden age might emerge. If all of us spread the message of Al-Quran to others, we can accelerate the process of change and perhaps be witness to a new golden age in our era.

When I was a child, I wondered why there is so much injustice in the world. I couldn't understand why some nations went to war with each other. I couldn't understand why there was so much poverty in the world. When I was a youth, I wanted to know the meaning of life and why we were put here on earth. I liked to increase my knowledge. But I didn't actively seek for the truth. I remember that there was an emptiness inside of me. An emptiness that I tried to fill with Alchohol and other material objects/things. But my emptiness wouldn't dissappear. Only the God could answer my prayers. But at that time, I didn't care. My emptiness was like a bottle with a hole at the bottom. A bottle with a hole at the bottom will remain empty, even if you fill it with lots of water. I guess was living in darkness. I guess was lost. The devil had led me astray. But one day, I prayed to God to show me the way. Before I knew it, I found "islam based on the Quran." And I have been passionate about islam ever since.

Until now I have worked alone (not collaborated with others) when it comes to spreading the message of Al-Quran. I like to work alone in regard to spreading the message of Al-Quran. Because I don't like "group think" or giving away my control to others. I prefer to have creative control on my work. That being said, I think it's a good thing that we can come together and collaborate on spreading the message of Al-Quran. So I'd like to work/collaborate with others in regard to spreading the message of Al-Quran in the future. I firmly believe in the strength/power of teamwork. Due to time-constraints, I am not able to seriously get involved in Quranic projects/causes these days. But I am definitely open to the idea of collaborating/cooperating seriously on Quranic projects/causes with fellow muslims in the future. I think one can spread the message of Al-Quran more effectively and further, by cooperating/collaborating with others. As a saying goes, "two heads are better than one."

If any of you are involved in Quranic projects/causes these days, and if there is anything I can do for you in regards to your projects/causes (e.g. give feedback) on islam/quran, don't hesitate to contact me. You can contact me whenever you want and I will answer your message as soon as I get some spare time. I firmly believe all of us can learn from each others thoughts, views and experience in regard to spreading the message of Al-Quran. In my view, even the most wise men need counsel from others from time to time. Because no one knows everything. In other words, no one is all-knowing. Therefore, it seems to be an intelligent decision to get counsel from others.

My dear brothers and sisters, I am planning to organize an event in the future (in due time). I want to invite people from the online Quranic community. I'd like to organize such an event in order to meet fellow muslims/mumins from the online Quranic community and talk about projects/causes (related to islam/quran), betterment (good/righteous works), business opportunities and last but not least to make/create and cultivate friendships. I love sports (particularly soccer). So I love to play soccer. I think it would be fun to play soccer with fellow muslims/mumins from the online Quranic community in the future. Also, I think it would fun to go to a cafe/restaurant with fellow muslims/mumins and watch a hollywood movie afterwards.

By the way, if anyone gets this Quranic project/cause off the ground, I'd be willing to help. But I can only help a little initially. Because my time is limited these days. Anyway, if anyone gets this Quranic project/cause off the ground and needs some help, feel free to contact me (by sending me a personal message).

JavaLatte

  • Advanced Truth Seeker
  • ****
  • Posts: 1574
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2016, 08:22:47 AM »
I think it would be fun to play soccer with fellow muslims/mumins from the online Quranic community in the future. Also, I think it would fun to go to a cafe/restaurant with fellow muslims/mumins and watch a hollywood movie afterwards.

That sounds like a good idea, Hiroshi.

I like it, except the red part? (=_=)-c<~o~)

Peace.
[33:72] Verily, We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to bear it and they were afraid of it; but man bear it - verily, he was transgressing, ignorant.

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11361
  • Karma +14/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2016, 10:45:56 AM »
One big problem with projects is people love to talk rather than do actual work.

For example, a simple thing that could have been done but wasn't, was make a list of Quran based islam resources we could use:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602369.msg321144#msg321144
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Taro Hiroshi

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2016, 06:43:32 PM »
Peace Wakas and everyone else,

One big problem with projects is people love to talk rather than do actual work.

For example, a simple thing that could have been done but wasn't, was make a list of Quran based islam resources we could use:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602369.msg321144#msg321144

I think that's a good idea. That being said, I think before we make a list of Quran based islam resources, it would be prudent to do the following:

1) Make a list of arguments against "islam based on Al-Quran." Then refute them one by one by using Al-Quran and historical facts.
I will get the ball rolling by sharing some arguments against "islam based on Al-Quran."

Some arguments against "islam based on Al-Quran.":

- Early muslims didn't follow "islam based on Al-Quran."
- Sects are allowed/endorsed by Al-Quran.
- Extra-quranic Sharia (Islamic law) is endorsed/supported by Al-Quran.
- Verses in Al-Quran have been abrograted.
- There is no detailed information about Salat, Zakat, Hajj and Qibla in Al-Quran.
- Obey God means obey the messenger.
- Muhammed received extra-quranic revelation (wahy).
- Muhammed is the teacher of Al-Quran.
- Muhammed's explanations of Al-Quran to his people were timeless.
- Muhammed was better than all the other messengers.
- Al-Quran is not complete and detailed.
- The word Dua in Al-Quran doesn't refer to prayer.
- The word Hikma (wisdom) in Al-Quran refers to the Sunna of Muhammed.
- The word Sunna in Al-Quran refers to the Sunna of Muhammed.
- Al-Quran is not a Hadith.
- Al-Quran encourages muslims to follow extra-quranic revelation (wahy).
- Al-Quran endorses/supports hadiths that are attributed to Muhammed.
- Without Hadith we have no information about the life of Muhammed.

2) Make a list of the teachings/laws/commandments of "Islam based on Al-Quran", and compare the teachings/laws/commandments of "islam based on Al-Quran" with the teachings/laws/commandments of traditional islam (sunni). By making a comparison between the teachings/laws/commandments of "islam based on Al-Quran" and the teachings/laws/commandments of "tradtional islam", we can show traditional muslims that "islam based on Al-Quran" is compatible with logic/reason/rationality, science, pluralism, human rights and women rights. This might convince many of them to follow "islam based on Al-Quran."

Some excellent resources we can use:

- An article by Layth. The title of the article is "God alone." In his article, he makes a comparison between islam based on Al-Quran and Sunni and Shia.
- A book by Edip. The title of the book is "Manifest for Islamic Reform."

Taro Hiroshi

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2016, 11:56:53 PM »
Although OP's project is a great project, I think there are many other great projects too. There are certainly many ways to spread the message of Al-Quran to others. For example, there are many people and some organizations that have portrayed islam and Al-Quran in a bad light. They have spread a lot of misinformation, misconceptions and myths about islam and Al-Quran. I think it would be prudent to refute their arguments. In my view, a great way to refute their arguments is by writing articles/essays and/or books and share them on a blog/website. I also think it's prudent to refute their arguments by engaging in debates/discussions online. I think it's a good idea to spread the message of Al-Quran to others in several ways and in several places. With that said, having scattered focus is detrimental. As a saying goes, "The Jack of all trades, master of none."

I believe it's critical to have a clear purpose before one decides to start a Quranic project ? whether it's OP's project or another project. Why? Because if you don't, you will most likely get bad results. You have to know exactly what you want to accomplish with your project. Because next to effort, your purpose will determine your results. If your purpose is unclear, you will be like an archer who tries to hit a shooting target in a dark night. No matter how skillful you are, you will most likely miss your target. Hence, you need to have a clear purpose. A clear purpose is pivotal to a successful project.

I believe it's critical to implement the principles/values of Al-Quran in one's life. But I think I have a far way to go in regard to doing this. For example, I haven't spread the message of Al-Quran to others as much as I should have done or could have done. Although I have tried to spread the message of Al-Quran to others the last few years, I have only reached a few of my objectives/aims. It appears that if one forgets ones true purpose in life, one will get sidetracked/distracted by things that have nothing to do with ones true purpose. From my understanding of Al-Quran, this divine/sacred book suggests that one should strive in the cause of the God, not in ones own cause. For example, if you strive in the cause of a political party, then you will use your time to spread the message of that political party to others. But if you use your time to spread the message of another political party instead, then you are no longer striving in the cause of your own political party. Right? From my understanding of Al-Quran, if one spreads the message of this divine/sacred book to others, then one is striving in the cause of the God. Having said that, striving in the cause of the God seems to take many other forms (e.g. being unselfish/generous and striving for peace, justice and equality). 

Al-Quran suggests that the messengers of the God, spread the message of the God to their people. And they didn't ask their people for any reward at all (6:90, 10: 72, 11:29, 24:57, 36:21 etc.). From my understanding of Al-Quran, the messengers of the God were examples for us to learn from. In my lifetime, I have seen many people who speak highly of the messengers of the God. But in my lifetime, I haven't seen many people who encourage us to do what they did (i.e. spread the message of the God to others). In my view, by spreading the message of Al-Quran to others, one spreads the message of the God to others. Because Al-Quran contains the message of the God.

From my experience, one of the hardest things in life is to serve only the God. It appears that one of the biggest pitfalls in the quest to truth, is to follow one's selfish purposes aka personal desires. Paradoxically, it seems that the more one strives in the cause of the God, the more one furthers one's own cause (47:7). Therefore, I think it's for one's own good to spread the message of Al-Quran to others.

Last but not least, there are several verses in Al-Quran which encourages muslims/mumins to spread the message of this divine/sacred book to others (3:79, 16:125, 25:51-52, 41:33, 42:7).

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11361
  • Karma +14/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2016, 03:40:06 AM »
peace TH,

Making a list of arguments against Quranic islam is fine, and thanks for making a start to such a list, but in order to refute them we would be drawing on resources/arguments/etc (from Quran based islam websites/articles/resources) thus linking to them initially is helpful. And the good thing about this its easy to do. Anyone who knows of websites, just paste the link.


In terms of spreading the message, the following are great and already available:

www.AreYouMuslim.com (some non-Muslims even find this fun/interesting)

www.Learn-About-Islam.com (even has printout flyers, mainly for non-Muslims)

Print out the Study Quran leaflets and stick up in Mosques, where Muslims gather etc. No-one is going to object to that. Really simple to do.

All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Taro Hiroshi

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 604
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2016, 04:43:05 PM »
Peace Wakas,

I agree with your views.

Comrox

  • Truth Seeker
  • ***
  • Posts: 629
  • Karma +0/-0
  • Gender: Female
Re: Proposal: A complete refutation to Sunnis.
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2016, 05:37:30 PM »
peace TH,

Making a list of arguments against Quranic islam is fine, and thanks for making a start to such a list, but in order to refute them we would be drawing on resources/arguments/etc (from Quran based islam websites/articles/resources) thus linking to them initially is helpful. And the good thing about this its easy to do. Anyone who knows of websites, just paste the link.


In terms of spreading the message, the following are great and already available:

www.AreYouMuslim.com (some non-Muslims even find this fun/interesting)

www.Learn-About-Islam.com (even has printout flyers, mainly for non-Muslims)

Print out the Study Quran leaflets and stick up in Mosques, where Muslims gather etc. No-one is going to object to that. Really simple to do.

The quiz was fun - I love quizzes. :)
10:109 Follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges.

57:3 He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Innermost. And He is fully aware of all things.