Author Topic: significance of Tawaf  (Read 11989 times)

Badr

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significance of Tawaf
« on: December 04, 2010, 04:18:29 AM »
Salaam aleikum all,

We first have to notice that each and every creation and all matter in the universe is made of atoms. Each atom is made of a nucleus which is a cluster of protons and neutrons and around that nucleus smaller and lighter particles called electrons are whirling at fantastic speed. Notice also that the small circle around the big, it is valuable for the microdimensional and the macrodimensional (orbits circling around planets and planets circling around suns/stars).





As God said "And when We assigned to Ibrahim the place of the House, saying: Do not associate with Me aught, and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves." Al Hajj :26

"Most surely the first house appointed for men is the one at Bekka, blessed and a guidance for the nations. " Al Imran :96

The Kaaba is a representation of the House of allah (we all know He doesnt reside there, He is everywhere but this is symbolic).

So by circling (tawaf) around the Kaaba, we (the smalls) pay homage to Allah (the big).



Understand who shall understand !




ayman

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 08:20:57 PM »


Notice also that the small circle around the big, it is valuable for the microdimensional and the macrodimensional (orbits circling around planets and planets circling around suns/stars).

So by circling (tawaf) around the Kaaba, we (the smalls) pay homage to Allah (the big).

Putting your two statements together shows that you are taking a stone cube as your god!

Badr

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2010, 01:17:04 AM »

Putting your two statements together shows that you are taking a stone cube as your god!

This answer shows that you have not understood.

CavemanDoctor

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2010, 01:55:16 AM »
This answer shows that you have not understood.

On the contrary, I think he's understood perfectly.  You just don't realize how faulty your analogy was.

And the pregnant mistaken assumption in your analogy is this: you're trying to localize something (God) which cannot be localized.  You were forced to do it in your analogy, likening God to the nucleus of an atom.  You'll just say it's an analogy, or a symbol, but all symbols are approximations of the literal.  And the literal in this case, whether you want to fully admit it or not, is the forced localization of the Divine. 

Though you pay lip service to God's omnipresence, you (unwittingly or not) do God a disservice through your attempts to capture Him in something bound by space and time.

Christians did it with Jesus.

You and your ilk have done it with the Kaaba, Muhammad, and your ulama (and yes, I realize you will say you don't worship Muhammad or the scholars, but again, it's largely lip service).


1CELOSTNOWFOUND

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2010, 03:02:40 AM »
Peace Badr


Isn't there a verse in the Quran that says something to the effect that those who worship idols say it is not their god, but rather a means of access to their god. Isn't there a similarity between your analogy and what they are saying?

Imraan

mmkhan

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2010, 12:09:29 PM »
Wa Alaikum Salaam Badr,

Salaam aleikum all,

We first have to notice that each and every creation and all matter in the universe is made of atoms. Each atom is made of a nucleus which is a cluster of protons and neutrons and around that nucleus smaller and lighter particles called electrons are whirling at fantastic speed. Notice also that the small circle around the big, it is valuable for the microdimensional and the macrodimensional (orbits circling around planets and planets circling around suns/stars).





This is NOT tawaaf what they do, but:

35:13    يولج اليل في النهار ويولج النهار في اليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لأجل مسمى ذلكم الله ربكم له الملك والذين تدعون من دونه ما يملكون من قطمير
35:13    He merges the night into the day, and He merges the day into the night. And He has commissioned the sun and the moon, each running for an appointed term. Such is Allah your Lord; to Him is the sovereignty. And as for those whom you pray to besides Him, they do not possess even the shell of a seed.

36:40    لا الشمس ينبغي لها أن تدرك القمر ولا اليل سابق النهار وكل في فلك يسبحون
36:40    The sun is not required to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.

No "tawaaf" word is used. Please let me know if any other aayat said it.

Quote
As God said "And when We assigned to Ibrahim the place of the House, saying: Do not associate with Me aught, and purify My House for those who make the circuit and stand to pray and bow and prostrate themselves." Al Hajj :26

Instead of CIRCUIT, I would prefer to translate at VISIT [tawaaf, everyone will be coming and going].

May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51    إن الله ربي وربكم فاعبدوه هذا صرط مستقيم
3:51    Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him,

san

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2010, 08:40:18 PM »

The Kaaba is a representation of the House of allah (we all know He doesnt reside there, He is everywhere but this is symbolic).

So by circling (tawaf) around the Kaaba, we (the smalls) pay homage to Allah (the big).


here, let me help you put your analogy into a table, for anyone who simply can't believe you just wrote all that

the smalls
(circling)     
the big
electronsnucleus
microdimensional
?     
macrodimensional
earthlingska'aba
planetssun

god=big
ergo,

the smalls
  (circling)
the big
earthlings
  (pay homage to)
the god
  ?

Well, your analogy is already very self-explanatory, i don't need to comment on that. What's much more interesting is this--the grand keyword of your whole post:

"symbolic"

As you said yourself: "we all know He doesnt reside there"
Then why, would you use a symbol to represent (borrowing CD's term), the locality of your Creator?

Even then, you finished your post with an understated closing remark: "Understand who shall understand !" That I agree with.

Don't fear--understand! Understand the motive behind all that you've been following.



True Love waits forever -- some just choose to fall in love sooner than some others. And the rest is by the way... nothing.

Badr

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2010, 03:53:10 AM »
Wa Alaikum Salaam Badr,

This is NOT tawaaf what they do, but:

35:13    يولج اليل في النهار ويولج النهار في اليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لأجل مسمى ذلكم الله ربكم له الملك والذين تدعون من دونه ما يملكون من قطمير
35:13    He merges the night into the day, and He merges the day into the night. And He has commissioned the sun and the moon, each running for an appointed term. Such is Allah your Lord; to Him is the sovereignty. And as for those whom you pray to besides Him, they do not possess even the shell of a seed.

36:40    لا الشمس ينبغي لها أن تدرك القمر ولا اليل سابق النهار وكل في فلك يسبحون
36:40    The sun is not required to overtake the moon, nor will the night precede the day; each of them is swimming in its own orbit.

No "tawaaf" word is used. Please let me know if any other aayat said it.

It is running and we know it's running in circles.

Quote
Instead of CIRCUIT, I would prefer to translate at VISIT [tawaaf, everyone will be coming and going].

May Allah guide us all towards the Truth.
Mohammed M. Khan

You can translat it as you want, it is circling tho.

Badr

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 04:02:03 AM »
here, let me help you put your analogy into a table, for anyone who simply can't believe you just wrote all that

the smalls
(circling)     
the big
electronsnucleus
microdimensional
?     
macrodimensional
earthlingska'aba
planetssun

god=big
ergo,

the smalls
  (circling)
the big
earthlings
  (pay homage to)
the god
  ?

Well, your analogy is already very self-explanatory, i don't need to comment on that. What's much more interesting is this--the grand keyword of your whole post:

"symbolic"

As you said yourself: "we all know He doesnt reside there"
Then why, would you use a symbol to represent (borrowing CD's term), the locality of your Creator?

Even then, you finished your post with an understated closing remark: "Understand who shall understand !" That I agree with.

Don't fear--understand! Understand the motive behind all that you've been following.



Look who's denying symbolism, you quranites are symbolising everything and when someone is using your own language to make you understand things you tell him why using symblism  :rotfl:

zakaat = poor rate charity, you symbolise it as purity
salaat = 5 daily prayer, you symbolise it as contact whenever we want
hajj = pilgrimage and circling, you symbolise it as visit (not all agree on the place also)

this is too funny

Don't you realise that you are always choosing the 2nd and sometimes also the 3rd definition of each word, even for a atheist arabic it would be clear but no, you muslims, choosing the farthest definition possible on the dictionnary.

-look tawaf is also visiting,

-of course it is also visiting, when you go to make tawaf, you have to put your foot on that place first

-ok let's skip circling and choose visiting

---------------------------------------------------------------------

-look salat is also contact

-obvious, when you pray, better be in khuchuu' and concentrated to make contact with allah

-ok let's skip the ritual and chooseonly contact

---------------------------------------------------------------------

-look zakaat is also purity

-of course, we make zakaat to purify ourselves from the evil deeds by following allah's will

-so let's stick to purity


really intelligent !!!!!!  :bravo:

You are not getting that all these terms you are choosing derived from the true ones not the opposite but you are too stubborn to admit it.

mmkhan

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2010, 04:09:31 AM »
It is running and we know it's running in circles.

You can translat it as you want, it is circling tho.

:brickwall:
6:162    قل إن صلاتي ونسكي ومحياي ومماتي لله رب العلمين
6:162    Say: My contact prayer, and my rites, and my life, and my death, are all to Allah, Lord of the worlds.
 
3:51    إن الله ربي وربكم فاعبدوه هذا صرط مستقيم
3:51    Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so serve Him,

san

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2010, 05:00:12 AM »
Look who's denying symbolism, you quranites are symbolising everything and when someone is using your own language to make you understand things you tell him why using symblism  :rotfl:

zakaat = poor rate charity, you symbolise it as purity
salaat = 5 daily prayer, you symbolise it as contact whenever we want
hajj = pilgrimage and circling, you symbolise it as visit (not all agree on the place also)
...

You are not getting that all these terms you are choosing derived from the true ones not the opposite but you are too stubborn to admit it.

Is that the best you can say? Where is your argument?

When you have understood what is "essence" and what is "symbol", we can actually exchange something. I agree though, the way you wrote your post and present your assumptions, i'd say "this is too funny" myself.




True Love waits forever -- some just choose to fall in love sooner than some others. And the rest is by the way... nothing.

Wakas

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 08:16:51 AM »
Traditional hajj and tawaf etc are critically damaged using The Quran itself, but often the problem is, the person you are debating with does not regard Quranic coherence and/or logic as fixed, and that is how they can fit whatever meaning they wish into it.

It is actually "Quranists" who have a much harder task of remaining true to its criteria, and are bound by it, not external whims/sources.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

www.studyQuran.org

TAJ

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 10:03:09 AM »
Badr,

 I will tell you what is so significant about 6awaf, and about hajj in general. It is the best event for sexual harassment; not to mention other physical aggressions practiced and experienced there.

szuberi

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2011, 09:53:21 AM »
the word "kaaba" (singular of kaabain) means "ankle/joint" according to 5:6

 O0

afridi220

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2011, 10:50:15 PM »
Badr,

 I will tell you what is so significant about 6awaf, and about hajj in general. It is the best event for sexual harassment; not to mention other physical aggressions practiced and experienced there.

Salaam
did you attended that event and experienced that harasment?  :hypno:
Peace


People are often unreasonable, illogical and self-centered; forgive them anyway

raginggaijin

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2011, 12:10:53 AM »
You are inviting others to practice sorcery.

Syncretism: Rituals of Hajj
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jY_6d7KBew

The Jewish Encyclopedia discusses circambulation:
"Extension of Sukkot.
The seventh day of the festival is distinguished as the "great Hosha'na" (the Gospel accounts of Jesus' entry on Palm Sunday seem to have confused this with Pesaḥ), or "the day of the palm-and willow-branches" (Suk. 42-45). Carrying in their hands branches at least eleven feet long, the celebrants make seven circuits around the desk, chanting "Hosha'na" (Ps. cxviii. 25), and then beat the floor with the branches. This custom, said to be of Mosaic origin, is undoubtedly an adaptation of a Babylonian rite (Yer. 'Ab. Zarah iv.)."

No where in the Quran is a ritual of Circambulation taught or discussed.

This is a Kabbalist rite known as ‘squaring the circle’. They circle the Kaaba 7 times to represent the 7 ‘heavens’ or celestial bodies that circle above the earth, and in honor of the alchemical or ‘spiritual realms’: Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Above, Below, and Within.
Carl Jung taught this was a “symbol of the opus alchymicum because it breaks down the original chaotic unity into the four elements and then combines them again in a higher unity”; the Philosopher’s stone.
This symbolic ritual used in esoteric Mystery schools and alchemy is taught by the Kabbalist satans who infiltrated the religions of man, turning service to our Creator into an idolatrous rite of magic, sorcery.







This rite was practiced by 3 million Islamists in 2010 alone.

I seek refuge in Allah from the accursed satans.

Peace.
Explanation is not proof.
I do not endorse the teachings of Free-Minds.org.
I follow only what Allah revealed, the speech of an honored Messenger: The Quran.
Surah 2:99, 6:155, 6:106, 7:3, 7:157, 7:203-204, 8:64, 10:109, 12:111, 33:2, 17:36,18:27-28, 15:9, 28:48-49, 35:29, 49:6, 54:17
Peace. :)

Bigmo

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Re: significance of Tawaf
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2011, 11:05:25 AM »
I think tawaaf, like bowing and prostrating, is ways by which humans worship. Its available in all societies. Peolple always had temples where they had sacrifices and festivals to commemorate God's providence. The difference between the Koranic understanding is monotheism and not doing these rituals for false gods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccftPtBhw1I

Rituals generally tend to be protocolish. often they are temples where people gather and perform rituals. The pagan Arabs probably did so in Mecca with the Ka'ba.  Often they will be reanactments of past religious significant events. The safa and Marwa is one such thing although the OT tells us it was in bersheeba and not Mecca. But the idea is the same, its a reanactment of some past religiously significant event. Its a way to preserve memory and tradition but also a way to thank God for His providence.

In the Old Testament there are many of these rituals like altars and incest and sacrifices.

http://vimeo.com/11133297

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL4L2hNFe3U

But the Koran wants us to do it for God and not false gods.

But its part of human nature to have rituals and rites.

22.34-37 To every people did We appoint rites , that they might celebrate the name of Allah over the sustenance He gave them from animals . But your Allah is One Allah. submit then your wills to Him (in Islam): and give thou the good news to those who humble themselves,- To those whose hearts when Allah is mentioned, are filled with fear, who show patient perseverance over their afflictions, keep up regular prayer, and spend out of what We have bestowed upon them. The sacrificial camels we have made for you as among the symbols from Allah. in them is (much) good for you: then pronounce the name of Allah over them as they line up : when they are down on their sides , eat ye thereof, and feed such as (beg not but) live in contentment, and such as beg with due humility: thus have We made animals subject to you, that ye may be grateful. It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah. it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right.

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe