Islamic law versus Secular law

[Emil]

Friends

Recently I asked on a mainstream muslim forum the following question:

Living in a secular society, how do you solve the dilemma when islamic law does not match the judicial law?

Got me interested how my QA brothers and sisters feel about the same question.........

Anyone?

[Nafi]

Islamic Law = Secular Law

[David_K]

Islamic Law = Secular Law

Do you have Quranic evidence for your claim? Can you back up what you say with Quranic verses?

[ramrodeo]

Islamic Law as given by Allah(swt) for human conduct . What exactly is judicial law I cannot understand but if you mean Judge made law that is not exactly "justice" because justice by man is quite impossible.You would be wise to read the Ten Commanments to start with. It forbids everything from perjury to murder . The holy Quran explains it better, thats all.

[captainneckbeard]

Islamic Law as given by Allah(swt) for human conduct . What exactly is judicial law I cannot understand but if you mean Judge made law that is not exactly "justice" because justice by man is quite impossible.You would be wise to read the Ten Commanments to start with. It forbids everything from perjury to murder . The holy Quran explains it better, thats all.

Your post doesn't address the question. The quran forbids several things and in order to mete out punishment, a system of laws should be used. In general, most secular laws are already in concordance with the Quran, or at least does not contradict. For example, there is no punishment for drinking alcohol, so it is between Allah and the drinker, and therefore no laws should be made regarding it. In the case of adultery, the laws of the US make no mention, nor seem to care, so there is a conflict. If the community were to carry out their own Islamic justice by lashing confirmed adulterers, they would be punished by the current law for assault. This seems to be in direct conflict with the Quran as it directly bars adherence to Allah's commands.

This is different of course if the lashing of adulterers is prescribed as the limit of the punishment, which would give room for no punishment to be included, therefore all secular laws are generally acceptable.

[Emil]

therefore all secular laws are generally acceptable.

Aye Captain

But you cannot say "generally" acceptable, can you? Either you accept or not. Or are you talking about the entire muslim community where it is accepted in some countries and in other not?

The reason why I did talk to a maintstreamer about this in the first place is because he does not accept that he is divorced from his wife. They got a "legal" divorce, but he changed his mind and is now claiming he did not utter "I divorce you" times three and therefore they are still married. The local imams agree with him.

So....according to the law they are divorced but he claims to "only follows the law of Allah", and therefore not allowing his ex-wife to get re-married to another man. Being a devout mainstreamer herself, she accepts what the imams say but refuse to live with her "husband" so now she is living in some kind of no-mans-land.

I know this particular case would not be an issue for the QA community, but there are other examples. Some of us do believe that the punishment for theft IS cutting the hand off. What if a QA would catch a thief? Would he cut off the hand or will be abide by the laws of his country and let legal justice have its course? If so, what is the reason to believe in a law that will never become reality?

[Abdun Nur]

Salaam,

what you site as Qur'anic law are misinterpretations of the meanings of verses like the cutting of hands, which is explained here:
http://servantofthelight.com/content/view/72/102/

The Qur'an demands natural (common) law, what the state or governments use is Roman law, this is why in Roman law, also known as the law of the See, a sovereign can murder millions without accountability, but in natural law, also known as the law of the land they would be fully accountable.

[Emil]

Salaam,

what you site as Qur'anic law are misinterpretations of the meanings of verses like the cutting of hands, which is explained here:
http://servantofthelight.com/content/view/72/102/

The Qur'an demands natural (common) law, what the state or governments use is Roman law, this is why in Roman law, also known as the law of the See, a sovereign can murder millions without accountability, but in natural law, also known as the law of the land they would be fully accountable.

Salaam Abdun Nur

Are you aware that not all QA agrees with this? Some (not me) actually do think physically cutting off the hand is the right way to do.....
The question is, when Roman law contradicts Quranic law, which superseeds the other?

I got my mind up, I see Allah as the guide of my soul and helps me in my natural, human and personal conduct. Whatever punishment or law needed for a society to function should be formed with the system of Islam in mind, but in the end it is a Roman, secular, or Non-Quranic law.

I am only interested in your view, since this mainstreamer made it very clear to me that he has no intention to follow the law of his country. He will become a burden to society and deemed an outcast. Good or not?

[Abdun Nur]

Salaam Emil,

sorry for the slow reply, Religions pervert the purpose of law, in the modern age the courts base their verdicts upon punishment, this is not lawful, and not the purpose of a court of law.

Punishment resolves nothing, it generates ill will, hatred, revenge, and twists the law into a contest.

The Islamic concept and the natural law concept is not based upon punishment at all but upon remedy, in the modern system the victim is left without any remedy they are given what solace they can from knowing the convicted suffers some punishment; financial, custodial or social, with the victim or their family left with no remedy and no resource for remedy.