Author Topic: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??  (Read 33308 times)

Bob

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2010, 04:29:35 AM »
 

Because of such ridiculous "argument" I had suggested for you you and san to undertake a basic course in Arabic and for QZ to undertake a refresher course. Only a stupid "scholar" can say that ["Nissa" is again a QAUN, though a weaker one, consisting of both males and females. Still a FEMININE PRONOUN can be used for this society of mixed people. Why? Because the NOUN used here is taken, under the rules, as feminine (NISAA)].

If a group of human beings comprises of six billion people in which all are women with only one male, even then the pronoun will always be MASCULINE and not feminine. I don't know why people keep insisting on their foolish thoughts even at the cost of risk of being taken as idiots?

so how did your "brilliant" mind came up with this (from one word,Rafas? :-\)

2:187. Permitted to you, on the night of the fasts, is the approach to your wives. They are your garments and ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them, and seek what Allah Hath ordained for you, and eat and drink, until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast Till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are Limits (set by) Allah. Approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His Signs to men: that they may learn self-restraint.

=


 "A good husband ,trying to find out that the woman has not had orgasm,so the MR GOOD HUSBAND sacrificing post sex slumber and making an other attempt to ensure that his partner may also achieve an orgasm" from 2:187 ??

 :-\

Bob

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #91 on: September 20, 2010, 04:41:40 AM »
 

Because of such ridiculous "argument" I had suggested for you you and san to undertake a basic course in Arabic and for QZ to undertake a refresher course. Only a stupid "scholar" can say that ["Nissa" is again a QAUN, though a weaker one, consisting of both males and females. Still a FEMININE PRONOUN can be used for this society of mixed people. Why? Because the NOUN used here is taken, under the rules, as feminine (NISAA)].

If a group of human beings comprises of six billion people in which all are women with only one male, even then the pronoun will always be MASCULINE and not feminine. I don't know why people keep insisting on their foolish thoughts even at the cost of risk of being taken as idiots?
أُحِلَّ لَكُمْ لَيْلَةَ الصِّيَامِ الرَّفَثُ إِلَى نِسَآئِكُمْ

 أُحِلَّ Verb: Passive; Form IV
الرَّفَثُ is its Ergative [نائب فاعل]

الرَّفَثُ  is something which is not desirable in public, since it relates to preliminaries of sex.

But it has restrictively been allowed  إِلَى نِسَآئِكُمْ .  Preposition  إِلَىl its general meaning is directional towards an object. Except those husbands who behave like worst animals in sex matters with their wives, all sensible husbands know its meanings and nicities. All Allah fearing husbands have preliminary session to mentally prepare the wife for sex to have her involvement and consent since command is also بَاشِرُوهُنَّ  requiring mutuality. الرَّفَثُ  with wife is the preliminaries which will incline her and بَاشِرُو is the ultimate which is possible only when wife also feels and reaches the multiple............



 :-X



Bob

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #92 on: September 20, 2010, 04:47:08 AM »
 

Because of such ridiculous "argument" I had suggested for you you and san to undertake a basic course in Arabic and for QZ to undertake a refresher course. Only a stupid "scholar" can say that ["Nissa" is again a QAUN, though a weaker one, consisting of both males and females. Still a FEMININE PRONOUN can be used for this society of mixed people. Why? Because the NOUN used here is taken, under the rules, as feminine (NISAA)].

If a group of human beings comprises of six billion people in which all are women with only one male, even then the pronoun will always be MASCULINE and not feminine. I don't know why people keep insisting on their foolish thoughts even at the cost of risk of being taken as idiots?


Explain to me why qoum is translated as MAN/MEN in this aya

يأيها الذين امنوا لا يسخر قوم من قوم عسي ان يكونوا خيرا منهم ولا نساء من نساء عسي ان يكن خيرا منهن ولا تلمزوا انفسكم ولا تنابزوا بالالقاب بئس الاسم الفسوق بعد الايمان ومن لم يتب فاولئك هم الظالمون


49:11. O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.


Qoum/Nisa..... ?

= Qaf-Waw-Miim = stand still or firm, rose/stand up, managed/conducted/ordered/regulated/superintended, established, made it straight/right, maintain/erect/observe/perform, set up, people/community/company, abode, stature/dignity/rank. aqama - to keep a thing or an affair in a right state.



 

Only a stupid "scholar" can say
that ["Nissa" is again a QAUN, though a weaker one, consisting of both males and females. Still a FEMININE PRONOUN can be used for this society of mixed people. Why? Because the NOUN used here is taken, under the rules, as feminine (NISAA)].[/color]



from Allama Pervaiz? Tabweeb ul Quran. Kindly check page No.1048, and go downwards under Chapter عورت ?  

6 th line. It reads as under :-  
 
جیسے نسائکم - تمیاری بیویاں ? مجازی معنوں میں یہ لفظ قوم کے اس طبقہ کے لئے آیا ہے جو جوہر مردانگی سے عاری ہو ---  
 
"stupid scholar" ?


Is this your translation, Mazhar ?




Sexual activity had been made permissible for you people during the night of the Fasting for associating towards your wives;they are the apparel for you and you are apparel for them [during the relationship conceals nakedness from vision of Angels and Jinns/Ieblees, since purpose of apparel is to conceal nudity]Allah has known that [by self imposed/conceived restriction] you people lessen/do not deliver the rights of your own selves, therefore He has paid attention upon you [to move you out from self assumptions] and He has overlooked/removed it away from you.


http://haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.C.142.%20M.htm

????




Mazhar

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #93 on: September 20, 2010, 05:17:11 AM »

Explain to me why qoum is translated as MAN/MEN in this aya

يأيها الذين امنوا لا يسخر قوم من قوم عسي ان يكونوا خيرا منهم ولا نساء من نساء عسي ان يكن خيرا منهن ولا تلمزوا انفسكم ولا تنابزوا بالالقاب بئس الاسم الفسوق بعد الايمان ومن لم يتب فاولئك هم الظالمون


49:11. O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong.


But why you think Yusuf Ali is the last word? Why not you see others? And perhaps you do not know that in "Old English" 'men" generally meant "human being, person".


No group of people should indulge in mocking/ridiculing another people, it is possible that they may be better than them;

and nor group of women should indulge mocking/ridiculing other women, it is possible that they may be better than them;

And QZ conveniently also forgets that verbs are different, for Masculine Noun the verb is masculine, and for women the verb is feminine apart from pronouns. That is why I say he needs a refresher course, though he knows Arabic and is deliberately and purposely cheating by ignoring basics of Arabic.

san

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #94 on: September 20, 2010, 05:35:18 AM »
But why you think Yusuf Ali is the last word? Why not you see others? And perhaps you do not know that in "Old English" 'men" generally meant "human being, person".


No group of people should indulge in mocking/ridiculing another people, it is possible that they may be better than them;

and nor group of women should indulge mocking/ridiculing other women, it is possible that they may be better than them;

And QZ conveniently also forgets that verbs are different, for Masculine Noun the verb is masculine, and for women the verb is feminine apart from pronouns. That is why I say he needs a refresher course, though he knows Arabic and is deliberately and purposely cheating by ignoring basics of Arabic.

Did you mean: and nor group of wives should indulge mocking/ridiculing other wives, it is possible that they may be better than them?


True Love waits forever -- some just choose to fall in love sooner than some others. And the rest is by the way... nothing.

Bob

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2010, 05:40:36 AM »
But why you think Yusuf Ali is the last word? Why not you see others? And perhaps you do not know that in "Old English" 'men" generally meant "human being, person".


No group of people should indulge in mocking/ridiculing another people, it is possible that they may be better than them;

and nor group of women should indulge mocking/ridiculing other women, it is possible that they may be better than them;

And QZ conveniently also forgets that verbs are different, for Masculine Noun the verb is masculine, and for women the verb is feminine apart from pronouns. That is why I say he needs a refresher course, though he knows Arabic and is deliberately and purposely cheating by ignoring basics of Arabic.

aha


so "women"/ "wives"" Nisaa,,,is not part of a QOUM?

No group OF POEPLE should indulge in mocking....nor a group of WOMEN ...?


why is women/Wives not included in this QOUM?

who do you think have the last word(coz you call others who disagree with you stupid).....?

Mazhar

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2010, 07:36:41 AM »
aha


so "women"/ "wives"" Nisaa,,,is not part of a QOUM?

No group OF POEPLE should indulge in mocking....nor a group of WOMEN ...?


why is women/Wives not included in this QOUM?

who do you think have the last word(coz you call others who disagree with you stupid).....?


After this post, what word should I coin except "stupid" to make you understand that words used are indefinite. And a Qaum comprises of subsets, and each subset has in it women who can do it against other women of their own subset. And unless women are identified as an entity with reference to a man/men for indicating relationship, it means women in the general sense.

Raaajah

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #97 on: September 20, 2010, 09:13:53 AM »
Bob no doubt you are great fan of Rafi, as I was not able to trace this song for many years, (may be due to spellings) any way thanks.

But I think you should restrict yourself to the songs of Rafi,
Because understanding of Quran seems beyond your melodious/humorous sense.

Bob
Quote
why is women/Wives  not included in this QOUM?
:rotfl:
We are at the end of the day Muslims...Neither quranists or free-minders or submitters or sunni or shia or any such nonsence that people use to label. Layth

Raaajah

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #98 on: September 20, 2010, 09:35:58 AM »
San
Quote
Let's start with what seems to be a prime example. Verse [3:42], with focus on the word [نساء]:

"O Maryam! Indeed, Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you over women of the worlds."

"O Maryam! Indeed, Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you over wives of the worlds."



Why don't you start with 3:39, reach at 3:40 and end at 3:42


wa-im'ra-atī

We are at the end of the day Muslims...Neither quranists or free-minders or submitters or sunni or shia or any such nonsence that people use to label. Layth

Bob

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Re: Dr Qamar's Haqeeqat Hadith, Haqeeqat Salat and Haqeeqat Saum??
« Reply #99 on: September 20, 2010, 02:17:38 PM »
After this post, what word should I coin except "stupid" to make you understand that words used are indefinite. And a Qaum comprises of subsets, and each subset has in it women who can do it against other women of their own subset. And unless women are identified as an entity with reference to a man/men for indicating relationship, it means women in the general sense.

But why you think Yusuf Ali is the last word? Why not you see others? And perhaps you do not know that in "Old English" 'men" generally meant "human being, person".


No group of people should indulge in mocking/ridiculing another people, it is possible that they may be better than them;

and nor group of women should indulge mocking/ridiculing other women, it is possible that they may be better than them;

And QZ conveniently also forgets that verbs are different, for Masculine Noun the verb is masculine, and for women the verb is feminine apart from pronouns. That is why I say he needs a refresher course, though he knows Arabic and is deliberately and purposely cheating by ignoring basics of Arabic.





I?m not saying Yusuf Ali is the final word; far from it, however I will use his translation (as it is traditional) to explain.

?Let not some men (Qoum) among you laugh at others?
?Nor let some women (Nisa) laugh at others?

It is clear that Qoum and Nisa are antonyms. Now let?s take a look at your translation :

?No group of people should indulge in mocking/ridiculing another people?
?nor group of women should indulge mocking/ridiculing other women?

If we look at the first section, the word ?people? constitutes of men and women, so there is no need to create a second section specifically related to ?women?

?Yaskhar? the ?masculine singular imperfect verb? has been used once, for both parties i.e. it has been used for ?Qoam? and for ?Nisa?

If Qoum and Nisa are antonyms, then we firstly need to understand what Qoum is in order to establish the meaning of ?Nisa?

Qoum is from the root: Qaf ? Waw ? Miim = stand still or firm, rose/stand up, managed/conducted/ordered/regulated/superintended, established, made it straight/right, maintain/erect/observe/perform, set up, people/community/company, abode, stature/dignity/rank. aqama - to keep a thing or an affair in a right state.

From the above, we can clearly see that ?Qoum? is positive, with high rank, which is in a right state.

To understand what Nisa is, we do need to have a ?refresher? and go back to basics in order to understand what the conditions are of nouns in relation to gender.

As we are well aware, there are two forms of gender in Arabic; masculine and feminine ? there is no neuter. Effectively this means each noun must be either masculine (true or figurative) or feminine (true or figurative). There are certain figurative nouns that are deemed feminine as standard ? i.e. human body parts (hand, eye), natural entities such as wind, geographical names such as towns, countries and so on.

If Nisa is the antonym of Qoum, then it is suggestive that Nisa is negative, with low rank, in a bad state. If Qoum is a country / nation / a people in a good state, of high stature and rank, then clearly Nisa is a weaker nation / people.

I rest my case!

Anyway, on a different note... I would like to share something with you all, especially ?Mazhar?

It has been said that ?Truth stands out clear from erroneous assertions? ? Is not the truth what we fight for? The right to seek the truth... Is that not a human right; to be given the opportunity to seek the truth!

In order to ascertain the truth and to understand the essence of the Quran, we need to analyse the Quran using all methodologies available, cross examining works in detail in order to reach a solid conclusion. This must be done so without personal opinions, and one must not be biased or prejudice, instead maintain an open mind!

An individual who is seeking the truth has the right to critically challenge anything, if it is done with rationale and without hatred; the individual should not be condemned. Like trying to solve a murder case, even if the victim?s family are questioned regarding the case, they would feel uneasy but would want to get the case resolved.

No one has the final authority on the Quran; we are all students, regardless of levels of study achieved! Academically, if a professor has written a paper, and one is to challenge that paper, it is done so without mocking its author. Challenging the works of a person, does not mean ATTACK THEM!

Credentials and titles have no value if the proprietor does not keep to the level (not only academically, but as a gentleman who has manners and etiquette).

Mazhar... frankly your behaviour has been shocking!! You have repeatedly behaved in an insolent manner!

The very Ayah (49:11) stipulates not to ?ridicule? others!

From ur translation :

He fully knows the one who has made himself mindful, cautious, heedful and avoiding unrestrained conduct in reverence and fear of Allah. [53:32]

this has been made for the abode of those who endeavour for ultimate success remaining mindful and cautious and avoid unrestrained conduct. 3:133

and you people should not slander against each other and nor make yourselves habitual in calling others with nicknames [of negative import],


From YOUR OWN TRANSLATION

Referring to someone as stupid is not in any way ?scholarly?. I tried to point this out to you, yet you have the audacity to continue with a disgusting display of childish bickering. If you cannot refrain from using such foul eruption of incivility, then I suggest you go take a look in the mirror, and leave the debating to individuals who have self-restraint!