Author Topic: Collection of Hadith written during life of the Prophet? Sahifa as Sadiqah?  (Read 4277 times)

seattletruth

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So I was having any argument with a Sunni about how all hadith can't be trusted because they were written 200+ years after Muhammad died. We had this same argument before, but this time the Sunni came up with a NEW argument. She said that the hadith are reliable because there was a book of hadith that was actually written during the time of the prophet, and the stories match up with later Bukhari or Muslim collections...

She says the name of this book that was supposedly written during the lie of the Prophet was Sahifa as Sadiqah by Abdullah bin Amr. She says its so important, and all Salafis rely on it..

Um.. OK. I can't find any information about it on the internet at all. Not a single English translation. Not even a write about about it. It's not credited as the book that any Sunnis or Salafis rely on. I told her, don't you think its a little strange that for a hadith collection thats "so important and relied on", that I can't find ANYTHING about it on the whole internet???

Actually, the only information I could find about the author even was that according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd-Allah_ibn_Amr , "He was, however, present at the Battle of Siffeen, at the insistence of his father; however he took no active part in it, deeply regretting in later life that he had been present at all". I thought this was funny because the female I was arguing with just told me she would stop calling me by the Arabic name she game me, because I wasn't brave like a lion (because I wouldn't believe in her Sunni BS), so I shouldn't be called Hamza. It turns out that her beloved source was such a coward, he went to battle and didn't even fight, according to Sunan Abu Dawud.

Under those I don't even think Abdullah bin Amr qualifies as a reliable, according to their own Sunni standards.


Anyways, does anybody have any more information on the collection Sahifa as Sadiqah by Abdullah bin Amr?? I am curious to read about it. Thanks.

AK85

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Hmm don't have anything to add, haven't heard of this.

Weren't a quite a few if not a lot of the sahaba cowards though? These sahaba only followed the prophet pbuh and gave him their allegiance after he beat them in battle or beat their friends in battle, as opposed to the true believers who pledged allegiance to him when he was weak, not because they were impressed with his military success but because they believed in what he preached and respected him as a person.
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Wakas

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Why not ask:
has a copy of this text actually survived from the time and been dated?
where can I find such a book?


Many make claims of ahadith/narrations written during the time of the prophet, but when asked have any of these actually survived? Then you either get no response or a mix of answers.


Just ask for a verifiable reference next time.
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afridi220

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Peace


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So I was having any argument with a Sunni about how all hadith can't be trusted because they were written 200+ years after Muhammad died. We had this same argument before, but this time the Sunni came up with a NEW argument. She said that the hadith are reliable because there was a book of hadith that was actually written during the time of the prophet, and the stories match up with later Bukhari or Muslim collections...

She says the name of this book that was supposedly written during the lie of the Prophet was Sahifa as Sadiqah by Abdullah bin Amr. She says its so important, and all Salafis rely on it..
Ask her to lend you her copy, she MUST have one sitting next to her Quran if its so important and all Salafis rely on it  ;D
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SarahY

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Peace seattletruth

Abduallah ibn amr wasn't a coward... according to tradition, he didn't fight because it was a civil war, muslim against muslim.. i wouldn't call someone refusing to fight a coward.

you're not going to find any suhaf or "sahifa". What salafi's and every other sunni rely on is the 6 books of hadith which apparently were recordings of hadiths that were orally transmitted or documented in suhaf. Sunni's believe bukhari and muslim just compiled hadiths together from already existing hadiths in suhf (Scrolls) or oral transmissions.

more than one suhuf is alleged to have come into use, probably some companions had their own notes/suhuf, none exist today.

all books i have read about hadith state no suhaf exist today nor are preserved today but if by some miracle i come across something i'd let you know (if i remember)

another argument you can use, forget time frame (200 + years) the prophet didn't authenticate hadiths. he didn't approve of them, even if they were written right next to him doesn't mean he approved it. Companions aren't infallible so why should people just adhere to something the prophet didn't verify or approve.
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seattletruth

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Companions aren't infallible so why should people just adhere to something the prophet didn't verify or approve.

I beg to differ. The title of the Bukhari collection blatantly says "Sahih", so that means that Bukhari was a prophet from God that was infallible, and he knew the unknown.  :yeah:


Heheh.. On a serious note. You're trying to tell me that this book Sahifa as Sadiqah doesn't really exist?? What is it then? A group of hadith taken out of Bukhari / Muslim that they said was attributed to Sadiqah? I'm confused. Thanks for your info... I can't believe I can't find this info about it if its so important.

Peace.

MUNZIR ALI

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In my islamic studies text book it says that "As sahifatul Madinah" was a hadith book written in the time of the prophet. Is this true?

SarahY

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I beg to differ. The title of the Bukhari collection blatantly says "Sahih", so that means that Bukhari was a prophet from God that was infallible, and he knew the unknown.  :yeah:

ah yeh "sahih" brother not ma3soom, ma3soom = infallible, sahih = authentic/truthful so sorry you gotta get your imams to help ya

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Heheh.. On a serious note. You're trying to tell me that this book Sahifa as Sadiqah doesn't really exist?? What is it then? A group of hadith taken out of Bukhari / Muslim that they said was attributed to Sadiqah? I'm confused. Thanks for your info... I can't believe I can't find this info about it if its so important.

No, i'm saying suhaf are said to have "existed" though none of them are intact today. e.g. i remember reading in a book that a scholar of hadith attributed using a suhaf but the suhaf ain't around today. non exist today to my knowledge. nothing is kept preserved. bukhari and muslim could have said a certain number of hadith were attributed to a suhaf but where are these suhafs? i haven't read of bukhari/muslim using sadiqah.

i have a break soon, i'll be studying more on hadith and hadith scholars, if i come across anything i'll post it.

what could be an interesting discussion is, sunnis say bukhari/muslim just went about collecting hadiths from numerous suhaf, why arent the suhaf preserved? where are the originals? who took them? etc..

anyway sorry can't help you

peace
We all have blind spots.
Follow your heart but take your brain with you.
ambiguity is there for a reason, why do you think?
We're all different, so how can we all be equal?

seattletruth

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ah yeh "sahih" brother not ma3soom, ma3soom = infallible, sahih = authentic/truthful so sorry you gotta get your imams to help ya

I was joking hehe... But how would you KNOW something is authentic / truthful unless you were God himself or a prophet whom God had blessed with knowledge of the unseen? Thats why I was saying Bukhari / Muslim must be prophets, if Sunnis can say that everything in their books is 100% truthful.
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i have a break soon, i'll be studying more on hadith and hadith scholars, if i come across anything i'll post it.

Thanks :D

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what could be an interesting discussion is, sunnis say bukhari/muslim just went about collecting hadiths from numerous suhaf, why arent the suhaf preserved? where are the originals? who took them? etc..

That's exactly what I was trying to say.. Peace.