Author Topic: Opposite Meaning  (Read 2689 times)

1CELOSTNOWFOUND

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Opposite Meaning
« on: April 02, 2010, 06:25:22 AM »
Peace All

Can one root in Arabic have a meaning & then have a meaning that is opposite to it? (Even if the word is a derivative of the original root).

Imraan

Thereformer1

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2010, 08:07:42 AM »
Peace All
Can one root in Arabic have a meaning & then have a meaning that is opposite to it? (Even if the word is a derivative of the original root).
Imraan

 I'm Arabic and never a root of a word can take the opposite to it whether it a provenience from the same root or a derivative of the original root but certainly the word can take another meaning but not the opposite.

an example "كذب" is a verb "lie" and "كذاب" is adjectif and it means "Liar" another derivative "تكذيب"  or "كذب" or "كذبة" or "كذيبة" . the opposite of this word is "صدق" in english means "honest" .
ما تقطع الواد حتى تبان حجارو وما تمشي في الليل حتى يطلع نهارو وما تصحب صديق حتى تعرف خبارو
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Mazhar

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2010, 11:17:40 AM »
The basic perception infolded in the Root shall always remain predominant in whatever pattern and shade a word is made from it.

bkanwar2

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 05:04:59 PM »
I'm Arabic and never a root of a word can take the opposite to it whether it a provenience from the same root or a derivative of the original root but certainly the word can take another meaning but not the opposite.

an example "كذب" is a verb "lie" and "كذاب" is adjectif and it means "Liar" another derivative "تكذيب"  or "كذب" or "كذبة" or "كذيبة" . the opposite of this word is "صدق" in english means "honest" .
The basic perception infolded in the Root shall always remain predominant in whatever pattern and shade a word is made from it.

Peace, both of you, are you certain of what you are saying?

Badar
Be aware, knowledge is not static.  My knowledge of Classic Arabic is evolving too.  Hence my understanding of the message continues to evolve.  I think, learn, unlearn, relearn and then believe; not believe and claim to know it all.

Thereformer1

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2010, 05:13:20 PM »
Peace, both of you, are you certain of what you are saying?
Badar

why do you think?
ما تقطع الواد حتى تبان حجارو وما تمشي في الليل حتى يطلع نهارو وما تصحب صديق حتى تعرف خبارو
============================================

 اللي حبك ما بنالك قصر واللي كرهك ما حفرلك قبر.

1CELOSTNOWFOUND

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2010, 01:11:27 AM »
Peace

Thanks for the responses.

One of the reasons for my question is because I am currently studying the supposed concept of abrogation in Quran.

We find that the derivatives of "nasakha" that appear in 2:106 & 22:52 are usually understood in the vein of abrogation, cancellation, etc.

In 7:154 & 45:29, we find that the derivatives of "nasakha" are understood in the vein of something written down or preserved.

This poses a problem because canceling or annulling something is quite the opposite of preserving it.

I don't accept "nasakha" as abrogation, but would like some input on any other concepts that present themselves as contradictory in the way they are usually translated because I feel that they need to be dealt with. We must take up the challenge of any apparent contradictions in the Quran if we are truly seeking the truth.

Imraan

Mazhar

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2010, 03:36:19 AM »
Peace

Thanks for the responses.

One of the reasons for my question is because I am currently studying the supposed concept of abrogation in Quran.

We find that the derivatives of "nasakha" that appear in 2:106 & 22:52 are usually understood in the vein of abrogation, cancellation, etc.

In 7:154 & 45:29, we find that the derivatives of "nasakha" are understood in the vein of something written down or preserved.

This poses a problem because canceling or annulling something is quite the opposite of preserving it.

I don't accept "nasakha" as abrogation, but would like some input on any other concepts that present themselves as contradictory in the way they are usually translated because I feel that they need to be dealt with. We must take up the challenge of any apparent contradictions in the Quran if we are truly seeking the truth.

Imraan

One fact that needs to be remembered is that Qur'aan was revealed, as stated therein, gradually, and people were listening and knowing facts about it one after the other. And it was simulteneously being compiled as ONE UNIT after every revelation of Ayat/Surat. Natural effect is that the sequence/order of the UNIT kept changing.


Those amongst the People of the Book and Pagans/Idolaters who have deliberately refused to accept [what has since been sent] do not love/desire it,
[Read in conjunction 16:30; and Allah's decision in 9:32;61:08]
that /further Soo'rat/Aaya'at of Book/something from blessing be sent upon you people from your Sustainer Lord. [In frame of reference, kheir'rim-mir'reb'bekuum, at that point of time when Qur'aan was being gradually revealed it meant further revelation-Read 16:30, and for all times it is any good/blessing. This is the sublimity of Arabic Mubeen of Qur'aan'eMubeen that in any frame of reference its words are a statement of fact for every reader/listener in time and space. Allah's response was that He will complete it 9:32;61:08]
[Same information in 3:74]
And [do they not know; let it be known] Allah chooses/makes him exclusive for His Special Mercy whomsoever He wills. [This is also answer to the insolent envy/jealousy shown by the people of Book and prominent elders of idolaters that Allah sent His Grace, the Qur'aan upon Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam reflecting his dignity, honour and unique individuality-see 2:90]


We do not change the place of ayah or leave guarding it until We bring there/that place one better suited there than her or similar to that. [A principle is told. Explained as "And when We change the place/location of an Ayah with the place/location of another Ayah, they say alleging "You [Messenger ]are indeed a fabricator"-Read 16:101]

http://haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/002.02.B.083.%20G.htm


And when We changed the place/location of an Ayah with the place/location of another Ayah, [because of gradual revelation of the contents of the Book this mutual substitution of the location of Ayah results in the change in the sequence of earlier compilation]

and Allah is well aware of what He has gradually revealed; [reverting from parenthetic, during the course of gradual revelation], on replacement of location of an Ayah with the location of another Ayah they say alleging "You [Messenger] are indeed a fabricator".

[Root of "Muftar" may also be studied which reflects re-arranging something]
 
http://haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/016.%20An%20Nahl/016.%20F%20An%20Nahl.htm




Thereformer1

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2010, 06:05:44 AM »
Peace
Thanks for the responses.
One of the reasons for my question is because I am currently studying the supposed concept of abrogation in Quran.
We find that the derivatives of "nasakha" that appear in 2:106 & 22:52 are usually understood in the vein of abrogation, cancellation, etc.
In 7:154 & 45:29, we find that the derivatives of "nasakha" are understood in the vein of something written down or preserved.
This poses a problem because canceling or annulling something is quite the opposite of preserving it.
I don't accept "nasakha" as abrogation, but would like some input on any other concepts that present themselves as contradictory in the way they are usually translated because I feel that they need to be dealt with. We must take up the challenge of any apparent contradictions in the Quran if we are truly seeking the truth.
Imraan

No, nasakha doesn't mean abrogate neither cancel, it's change the first situation by another one for decreasing the law of the first situation. like someone who has been judged to stay in jail for ever, then they decreased this punishment by limiting the period (40 years in jail or less) .
ما تقطع الواد حتى تبان حجارو وما تمشي في الليل حتى يطلع نهارو وما تصحب صديق حتى تعرف خبارو
============================================

 اللي حبك ما بنالك قصر واللي كرهك ما حفرلك قبر.

Mazhar

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2010, 06:40:07 AM »
No, nasakha doesn't mean abrogate neither cancel, it's change the first situation by another one for decreasing the law of the first situation. like someone who has been judged to stay in jail for ever, then they decreased this punishment by limiting the period (40 years in jail or less) .

Please quote some instance from the Qur'aan to make the point clearer. Thanks.

Thereformer1

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Re: Opposite Meaning
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2010, 08:27:25 AM »
Please quote some instance from the Qur'aan to make the point clearer. Thanks.

ok, You're welcome .

Mansoukh :

إن الله تعالى أمر بثبات الواحد من الصَحابَة للعشرة في قوله تعالى: {إِنْ يَكُنْ مِنْكُمْ عِشْرُونَ صَابِرُونَ يَغْلِبُوا مِائَتَيْن{ِ

[8:65]"If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred,"    here in this verse God said that twenty of patient Muslims, will vanquish two hundred.

Nasekh : which is decreasing the first situation and make it easy and acceptable .from twenty to hundred of them.

[بقوله تعالى :{الآنَ خَفَّفَ اللَّهُ عَنكُمْ وَعَلِمَ أَنَّ فِيكُمْ ضَعْفًا فَإِنْ يَكُنْ مِنْكُمْ مِائَةٌ صَابرة يَغْلِبُوا مِائَتَيْنِ} [الأنفال:66

[8:66]"For the present, Allah hath lightened your (task), for He knoweth that there is a weak spot in you: but (even so), if there are a hundred of you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred,"
ما تقطع الواد حتى تبان حجارو وما تمشي في الليل حتى يطلع نهارو وما تصحب صديق حتى تعرف خبارو
============================================

 اللي حبك ما بنالك قصر واللي كرهك ما حفرلك قبر.