Author Topic: Is God a Man?  (Read 8664 times)

Ahmad Bilal

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Is God a Man?
« on: March 24, 2010, 07:27:39 AM »
As Salaamu 'Alaikum,

Throughout the scriptures, particularly the Bible and Qur'aan, God (Allah) is described in many different ways. Some of these descriptions imply that the God of the Bible and Qur'aan is a living, breathing Human, simply being One Who has surpassed our current level of intelligence and power.

For example, the Biblical book of Genesis says that Allah ("Eloheim") made Man in His image and likeness, and based on many lexicons, this is specifically referring to God's physical attributes, implying the idea that Man LOOKS LIKE God. This thought is also conveyed in the ancient Hebrew Mischna, where the angels are described as nearly mistaking the first man (i.e. "Adam") for Allah Himself! The book of Psalms refers to God as having a physical body, and "ha' eloheim" (the gods) is used separately from "Eloheim" (God), Who is the highest One among them. Psalms 82:6 even goes to the point of saying that we are ALL "eloheim, benee' Elyon", or 'gods, sons of the Most High (God). This concept was also expressed in ancient Egyptian, Sumerian, and Babylonian literature and writings. Their god is ALWAYS depicted as having a physical form.

Now, when it comes to the Qur'aan, these attributes are expressed differently. According to Dr. D.B MacDonald's article on 'Allah' in the Encyclopedia of Islam, the descriptions of God in the Qur'aan are a "strange combination of anthropomorphism and metaphysics". Many passages directly imply that He is an anthropomorphic deity, having the physical embodiment of a Man. For example, Allah is mentioned as saying to Iblis:

"O Iblis, what prevented thee from submitting to him whom I created with MY TWO HANDS (bi-yadayya)?" (Q. 38:75)

People say that the "hand" of God is a metaphorical description of His power and might. However, what of TWO HANDS? This sounds like a physical description. This is further implied in 5:64, which says:

"And the Jews say, 'The hand of Allah is tied up.' Their own hands are shackled and they are cursed for what they say! Nay, BOTH HIS HANDS ARE SPREAD OUT." (Q. 5:64)

On top of this, the Qur'aan specifically mentions Allah as having a face and eyes, and He is said to have a soul (nafs):

Thou (God) knows what is in my soul (nafs), and I know not what is in Thy soul (nafs). (Q. 5:116)

He has decreed mercy from His soul (nafs). (Q. 6:112)


In addition, Allah is never specifically regarded as being omnipresent. In fact, the Qur'aan repeatedly mentions Him sitting on an 'arsh, or a physical throne. The seat of the king is considered an 'arsh.

There are many more examples I could mention, but these, in my opinion, are fairly sufficient. So, this brings forth the question, Who is this God? The Qur'aan itself reveals this. It says that the angels, along with all the believers submit and prostrate (i.e. 'sudja) to Allah alone. The problem? It specifically says that the angels bowed to the one whom Allah shaped with His two hands, after Allah blew His "ruch" (spirit/self) into Him. Here, it implies that Allah is actually INSIDE the Man who He created, and the angels were instructed to prostrate to this one. The one who refused was "Iblis", who was banished for his refusal. Why? It's because, in doing this, Iblis was refusing to prostrate to Allah Himself, Who was inhabiting this Man (body). This means, at a minimum, that part of God was dwelling inside the original Man on this planet, which is why the Man was considered to be Allah's "khalifa"/successor on this planet. In other words, he was formed to represent God on Earth, to be the lord and controller of it.

Is it possible that Allah could be a physical Person, the Supreme of beings?
"The true delight is in the finding out, rather than in the knowing." - Isaac Asimov

asubmitter

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 11:54:02 AM »

On top of this, the Qur'aan specifically mentions Allah as having a face and eyes, and He is said to have a soul (nafs):

Thou (God) knows what is in my soul (nafs), and I know not what is in Thy soul (nafs). (Q. 5:116)

He has decreed mercy from His soul (nafs). (Q. 6:112)

Nafs, can mean a lot of things,be careful to call it soul, because it is more closer to self or ego than soul, you clearly translated 'ruch' or 'ruh' as self, or spirit, when it is spirit or soul. I think you are manipulating the text or confusing the two.

As for the nature of God, we should conclude 'none equals Him' (112:4).  As for Jesus' quote I think we can apply this to many things,

"You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts"

God is Living, Self Subsistent and Cognizant.

As for the creation of Adam, it has to start from somewhere, it cannot just appear without a creator, nor can we go back in time to question the cause.  we can only see the present,  a life form living within a natural habitat, integral to the whole, specific with motion and designed to learn.

Rami

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2010, 12:06:36 PM »
Allah is like any king on Earth, He has a throne, a Kingdom(Heavens and Earth), an army(the Angels and believers who fight in His cause). He sends messengers calling people to submit to His will or be punished. Kings do that. But for Allah, this is pretty legit.

He sat on His throne after completing his creation from the primordial waters. Interesting stuff.

And nephesh, according to Jewish thought, is anything that has blood in it.  Thats why blood is forbidden.

When I was in my Sunni days, I read a story about how God after leveling the Earth, God asks a rhetorical question:

'Where are the kings of the Earth now?' Wow. I love it. :muscle:


RA786

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 12:26:09 PM »
I like how Rami uses books or Concepts that are Christian/Jewish/hadithist (i.e. Human/masculine/falliable) and trys to tie it in to Islam.

I have noticed the Ever growing trend of introducing misogynistic,misanthropic,chauvinistic, and incredibly lazy (humanoid) attrubtes to GOD in religion.
In EVERY SINGLE polytheistic Religion, you will see these, it is a Dead-Give away.

For milenia's Human beings who serve the agenda of the Shyatan have always Loved to worship pictures of themselves.
a Built Masculen God-Archetype of themselves. Zues, and the others.

All of these concepts are Purely Human and anti-islamic.

Especially in Christianity, you will find that they describe God as an Angry Old man with a white beard, and a God son incarnation, and a God who makes creation and is lazy and tired and must rest in his Cloudy bed after a long days work.... Or a god-man who doesnt know how to properly do his job. Even the "HE" part.

All of these are Anti-Islamic/Quranic.

Allah is not a male nor female nor limted to one place nor limited in one aspect. Allah is Not a Man, for he never dies, hes Before the before and After the After...His Hands? I dont believe Allah Has hands. it is all made in a way that we can understand and try to identify with...however There is no limitation of fallable aspects of Allah.

Rami

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 12:31:26 PM »
Peace RA786,

What you are saying is cool but you have no scriptural evidence and I could say the same thing for the Bible too. That it is also metaphorical etc. Even in the Islamic traditions, Allah is anthropomorphic.

Peace,

Rami


jaythikay99

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 03:42:57 PM »

On top of this, the Qur'aan specifically mentions Allah as having a face and eyes, and He is said to have a soul (nafs):

Thou (God) knows what is in my soul (nafs), and I know not what is in Thy soul (nafs). (Q. 5:116)

He has decreed mercy from His soul (nafs). (Q. 6:112)


"and every soul shall taste death" -quran

Ahmad Bilal

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 06:48:00 PM »
Peace,

Even in the Islamic traditions, Allah is anthropomorphic.

I disagreed with Rami for quite some time, but I've finally come to realize that he is correct! In the ancient Islamic traditions, Allah is always considered as being anthropomorphic, having a physical body... There's nothing wrong with tying the Islamic doctrines into the systems of Jewish and Christian thought, because the Qur'aan says that Muhammad taught the same message that ALL THE OTHER PROPHETS taught, who existed at different times and in different locations. Around the world, the most common similarity in the world's foundational religions is that God (Allah, Eloheim, Eloah, Elyon, Brahma, Atum, Om, Ahura Mazda, Amun, etc.) was always considered to be an IMMORTAL MAN, an anthropomorphic deity who formed the Universe and even inhabited the Earth at one point!

Peace RA786,

I have noticed the Ever growing trend of introducing misogynistic,misanthropic,chauvinistic, and incredibly lazy (humanoid) attrubtes to GOD in religion.
In EVERY SINGLE polytheistic Religion, you will see these, it is a Dead-Give away.

The problem with your analysis is the ancient religions were NOT polytheistic. They were HENOTHEISTIC, meaning they worshipped the God of the Gods, the highest one. This was even true of the Biblical Israelites! The Egyptians believed in many deities, but they were all considered to be subservient to The Most High God. The Sumerians had the same basic theological ideas concerning this issue, and these are considered two of the world's oldest known nations.

Allah is not a male nor female nor limted to one place nor limited in one aspect. Allah is Not a Man, for he never dies, hes Before the before and After the After...His Hands? I dont believe Allah Has hands. it is all made in a way that we can understand and try to identify with...however There is no limitation of fallable aspects of Allah.

Does the Qur'aan itself say these things about Allah, or is this your own belief, based on Islamic tradition? The scripture plainly says that Allah has "two hands". This sounds pretty self-explanatory to me! If you interpret "two hands" as meaning something else, then that is your choice and interpretation. However, the Qur'aan refers to "TWO HANDS", the same kind of hands that we, as humans, have.

Peace!
"The true delight is in the finding out, rather than in the knowing." - Isaac Asimov

RA786

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 07:00:10 PM »
but that would contradict Allah being a Limitless being.

such as his 99 attributes.

How can Allah be a man if he is "limitless"? also what Human do you know is Immortal? it is against Science/laws of physics. It is against all Sane Teachings.

How can Allah be a man if Allah (the name/word) does not have a Gender to it?
How can Allah be a man if the Quran says "He (Allah but no gender) does not consort a son [jesus]" the context and way it said it was as though it is Blasphamous to say that Allah could EVER have a child. If he is Human....then why would that be so Blasphamous or such a big deal?

If Allah was a man, who created him? Why would a "Man" Male Gender from the Homosapian Species be a "God" in space if Humans are Earthlings, and the Earth was created  only a few billion years ago?

That doesnt make cronological sense.

why would Allah be a man if all of his attributes say otherwise.

This whole Idea of an Immortal man is Impossible. It is Fairy tail...you would have made more sense if you would have just said you were an Atheist who doesnt even believe god exists.


Astagfirullah! :D

Rami

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2010, 12:33:41 AM »
Quote
The problem with your analysis is the ancient religions were NOT polytheistic. They were HENOTHEISTIC, meaning they worshipped the God of the Gods, the highest one. This was even true of the Biblical Israelites! The Egyptians believed in many deities, but they were all considered to be subservient to The Most High God. The Sumerians had the same basic theological ideas concerning this issue, and these are considered two of the world's oldest known nations.

You raise an interesting point here. The problem lies in the word 'diety'. People always take it as 'gods' who challenge ''God's'' authority. It turns out, its all about immortality. We are henothiestic too. We believe in Gabriel and Michael and the Angels as immortal men but take only Allah as sovereign. So we can say that Allah and the Angels are the Elohim 'the committee of immortal men', while YHWH is the boss. The angels in the Quran and the believers when they die, they are called the 'honored servants' because they were granted immortality in the Garden of Eden or Dilmun in ancients teachings which is simply the abode of all immortalized men(the angels and the believers). So the believers ascend, not to 'godhood' but to comfortable immortality.

Taking a quick tour through the Torah, you will find in Genesis something very interesting aside from man being created in the image of Elohim. When Adam ate from the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, God was worried that they would eat from the Tree of Life and become 'gods'. So a 'god' could be an immortal man who knows good from evil. God pushed him away, going to the Quran next, to test him to see whether he is fit to become an Elohim in Eden with Him and the angels.

Quote
How can Allah be a man if Allah (the name/word) does not have a Gender to it?

He is a man.

Quote
How can Allah be a man if the Quran says "He (Allah but no gender) does not consort a son [jesus]" the context and way it said it was as though it is Blasphamous to say that Allah could EVER have a child. If he is Human....then why would that be so Blasphamous or such a big deal?

But what was the reason that Allah gave for not having a son? Not because he can't but because he had no female consort!!!!


RA786

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Re: Is God a Man?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2010, 07:41:52 AM »
It also says that he doesnt have Daughtors and those who attributed daughtor "of alllah" to him were in BIG TROUBLE.

Why would a Man, be so Offended if you say He has a Son or a Daughtor?
That doesnt make anysense.

Why would a MAN be Immortal? I dont know if you know this but uh....Science and History has Proven...a Homosapien is NOT immportal.
a Homosapian cannot make a Univerese, A Homosapian cannot know what people are thinking.

This whole view of Allah being a Man is not only blasphamous but Also in La-La Land.
If human beings are ONLY a couple of million years old....HOW IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A HUMAN GOD TO BE OVER TRILLION YEARS OLD?
How did he Breathe in the Vaccume Empty Space? how did his Skin (from his hands) Not BURN off when he made the sun?

How does he have Ablitites such as being Immortal, Psychic, omnipotent,ominescent, etc... yet Human?
NO human has those its redicolous.


You know what, The Quran teaches me about people like you guys.
It clearly says that if somone is talking bad about Allah/Islam to leave them until they change the subject.
    So that is what I will do.

This is the most Historically Un-cronological, incredibly fallible and satanic interpretation i've ever heard.
Its funny you even believe this and claim to believe in the Quran.

Like I said...I would have more Respect for an Athiest Disbeliever then a """Muslim""" who believes Allah is human.
Keep putting limits on the limitless.

and btw, the Torah/Gospel has been tampered with (historical fact) and was translated by Egotistic Chovenistic men fallable...therefore what you will read is often a fallable god in the books.

("who forges a Lie against Allah?")