Other Issues > Christianity/Judaism/Others
Jesus VS Isa
hope4:
Selam
I would love to see a massive budget reserved for serious archaeological search in and around Arabia. I think many things will be revealled.
Peace
Cushan:
Eh, I disagree. Why is it that this Jesus and Elizabeth and Yahya are never mentioned until the first century CE when Messianic fervor in Judea was relevant? There's no crucified figure in history before the Christian Christ, and after his generally agreed upon lifetime both Jewish and Christian sources buzz with views relating to him.
Remember that only five hundred years passed between Jesus and Mohammed. Hard to believe there was that much misapprehension in that period. The whole revisionist theory is just too out there.
Maududi in his tafsir gives the best explanation on the dual Maryam controversy, in my opinion.
I also disagree with Salibi on the revisionism of the Bible. Again, the only reason to even look for such a conclusion would be to legitimize Muslim claims to Biblical history after the foundation of Islam. Kind of like sub-saharan Africans claiming to be Hebrews, or white Christians claiming the Bible took place in Europe. Or Mormons claiming to be Israelites.
san:
Peace, Pazuzu! :yay:
I noticed the "sister of Harun" but never put it into the equation in time/history...! :nope:
Now if we think the Sura 3 is titled "The Family of `Imraan" -- Musa, Harun, Maryam? Interestingly, there is no occurence of "Harun" in Sura 3, but here's a quick found of their occurences in Sura 3 and 19, and Sura 20 which confirms that Harun is from Musa's family:
Sura 'Ali `Imraan:
3:35, 36 The "wife of `Imraan" gave birth to a female child and named her "Maryam"
3:37 "Maryam" was under the care of Zakariyya
3:42, 43, 44 "Maryam"
3:45 "`Iysa" son of "Maryam"
3:84 "Musa" "`Iysa" (mentioned after "Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants")
Sura Maryam
19:16 And mention in the Book, "Maryam", when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.
19:27 "Maryam"
19:28 "Harun" ("O, sister of Harun")
19:34 "Iysa" son of "Maryam"
19:51 "Musa"
20:19-30
20:19 said, "Throw it down, O Musa."
20:20-28 ...
20:29 And appoint for me a minister/helper from my family -
20:30 "Harun, my brother"
فأتت به قومها تحمله قالوا يا مريم لقد جئت شيئا فريّا
19:27 Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
يا أخت هارون ما كان أبوك امرأ سوء وما كانت أمك بغيّا
19:28 O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
فأشارت إليه قالوا كيف نكلم من كان في المهد صبيّا
19:29 So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?"
قال إني عبد الله آتاني الكتاب وجعلني نبيّا
19:30 said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet (Nabiyya).
وجعلني مباركا أين ما كنت وأوصاني بالصلاة والزكاة ما دمت حيّا
19:31 And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me AlSalaAt and AlzakaAt as long as I remain alive
وبرّا بوالدتي ولم يجعلني جبارا شقيّا
19:32 And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
والسلام علي يوم ولدت ويوم أموت ويوم أبعث حيّا
19:33 And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive."
ذلك عيسى ابن مريم قول الحق الذي فيه يمترون
19:34 That is `Iysa, son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.
19:34 That is Jesus, son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute.
... must remember to refer to the Prophet as "`Iysa son of Maryam" instead of "Jesus son of Mary" now
Peace
Rev.John:
--- Quote from: Cushan on November 23, 2009, 09:22:18 PM ---There's no crucified figure in history before the Christian Christ,
--- End quote ---
You are joking of course? There were thousands of people crucified, it was a common form of execution in the Roman Empire in those days
Pazuzu:
--- Quote ---I noticed the "sister of Harun" but never put it into the equation in time/history...!
--- End quote ---
I still insist that the word "sister" doesn't necessarily mean so in the literal sense. However, it certainly means that Harun and Maryam were contemporaries. That at least, hold true. The Quran would NOT call her SISTER of Harun if she came 1000 years later. Had that been the case, It would simply have been enough to call her "Daughter of Amran" (Daughter / Son means decendents - not necessarily direct children, if you catch my drift).
I don't blame you for not noticing. But if a person who reads the Quran extensivley such as you do (I presume) missed it, what can we say about the 90% of Muslims living today, who go about reciting the Quran like zombies?
--- Quote ---... must remember to refer to the Prophet as "`Iysa son of Maryam" instead of "Jesus son of Mary" now
--- End quote ---
This is exactly what I am trying to prove, with God's help. Jesus (Yeshu) is NOT (or rather, WAS not) Esau (Isa)
These are two distinctinct Hebrew names. Does anyone here speak Hebrew?? Please confirm this. The brainwashed Muslims have been led to believe that Yeshu is the Hebrew transliteration of Isa. Well it is NOT >:(
Both are Hebrew names. The implications of this fact are quite devastating.
--- Quote ---Remember that only five hundred years passed between Jesus and Mohammed.
--- End quote ---
Yes. Between JESUS (the son of a carpenter and political rebel who stormed into Jerusalem some 2000 years ago) and Muhamad. But ISA the son of Maryam came centuries before JESUS.
--- Quote ---Maududi in his tafsir gives the best explanation on the dual Maryam controversy, in my opinion.
--- End quote ---
I regret to say that I am not familiar with Maududi's explanation. Can you please post it for us, so that we can study it under the light of reason?
--- Quote ---I also disagree with Salibi on the revisionism of the Bible. Again, the only reason to even look for such a conclusion would be to legitimize Muslim claims to Biblical history after the foundation of Islam.
--- End quote ---
Why would Salibi, a devout Christian, want to legitemize Muslim claims? What can he hope to gain from that? The man is a linguist and historian, and his discovery will soon shake the very foundation of all 3 rampant faiths.
--- Quote ---I would love to see a massive budget reserved for serious archaeological search in and around Arabia. I think many things will be revealled.
--- End quote ---
Dream on!!
The Wahabis who rule Saudi Arabia are not interested in science. All they care about is how to fill their bellies with food, and spin 7 times around their cubic idol. Right under them are the ruins of the past nations that God spoke of in the Quran. Everything is right there, under their very noses, but they are too lazy to move their a$$es and investigate. All they do is boast about the "scientific miracles" of the Quran?? Who discovered all that?? Certainy not them!
I will quote proffessor Hertzog next.
Peace...
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