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Jesus VS Isa

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Pazuzu:

I think Ayman and Layth might be interested in this topic.

For the past year, I have been reading the books of Dr. Kamal Salibi, and digesting every word in them. Salibi (b.1928) just to let you know, is considered to be the most important historian of the Middle East, and wa previously a teacher in London as well as the American University in Beirut, Lebanon.

In 1985, he published a book called: "The Bible Came from Arabia", where he presented some irrefutable proofs that the Israelites originated  in South Western Arabia, and that the original kingdom of David and Solomon was located somewhere near the present day Asir mountains, in the South Western corner of Hijaz, Saudi Arabia, not too far from Yemen.  This revolutionary theory (which caused him to be labeled  a madman at the time) is now begining to resonate in Europe, and some anti-zionist Rabbis have actually embraced it.

I don't want to bore you with details. You will have to read the books of Salibi to find out more. For those of you who are interested in Biblical history and archeology, Salibi's books are a MUST READ. They have opened my eyes to many truths, and confirmed some suspicions I had for many years (I always suspected that Isa, son of Maryam , was from from a far older time that the historic Jesus).  What struck me about his theories is that Salibi, despite being a devout Christian, did not shy from using Quranic verses to prove his point, and supported them with archeological and geographical evidence.

Anyway, to make it brief, Salibi, who is also a proffessional in old Hebrew linguistics, made the following observations to validate his theory:

1- The geography of Palestine does NOT fit at all with the stories of the Old Testament.
2- The names of 99% of the towns and villages in the old Testament (before its text was corrupted by the clergy of later ages, who manipulated the accentuation of its letters) are exact matches with names of towns that can still be seen today in the Asir region in SW of Saudi Arabia.
3- The towns of Lot, Aad, Median, were destroyed by volcanic activity, and if the Arabs had any sense of curiosity or discovery like the West, they could probably find their ruins scattered all over the Hijaz area, which has many volcanoes around it.
4- There is absolutely no historical or archeological evidence in Palestine that indicates that the kingdom of Solomon was ever in Plaestine to begin with. The idea of the "Promised Land" for the Jews is a fallacy. (he then explains the difference between Jews and Israelites). The Jews  have been digging and excavating the region in and around Jerusalem for over 150 years and have failed to uncover the slightest shred of evidence to support their claims concerning the Kingdom of David.  Jewish proffessor Zaif Hertzog, who teaches Biblical archeology in the university of Tel-Aviv has also backed Salibi's theory, as have many other scholars of the West.

5- Salibi points out also the absence of any Hieroglyphic or archeological evidence proving that the Israelites were ever in Egypt to begin with. The word "misr" in the Quran does NOT mean Egypt. It is not even a proper noun. The word means: "a walled fortified farming town", and pharaoh is simply the title of its ruler. Interstingly, Egypt came to be called "Misr" by the Arabs, for the first time, in much later ages. During the time of Moses, the Egyptians called their land: "Kimi", while the Greek historians called it "ha-ka-ptah" (meaning land of Ptah).  He points out that Egypt (Nile country) never had any fortified towns at all. All its towns were open and built on the banks of the nile.

Interestingly, there is a town in Asir, Saudi Arabia, called "Masrama", (مصرمة), and it has existed under the same name for over 3000 years! The name appears in the OT, and archeologists have confirmed its existence.

6- This is where it gets interesting:  The Quran calls Maryam (mother of Isa) the Sister of Aaron

{Then she came to her people carrying him. They said: "O Maryam, you have come with a thing totally unexpected!" * O Sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, and your mother has never been unchaste!}...19:27,28    (This is the FM transaltion, which is not very accurate, but that's not the point).

This Aaron who is mentioned here...is he not the brother of Moses???

Christian scholars used the above verses to claim that the Quran is historically inaccurate because it confused Maryam daughter of Amran (sister of Aaron)  with Mary, mother of Jesus.

The Muslim "scholars" in their hypocricy, and in order to "defend" the Quran (and at the same time, support unknowingly the Christian doctrine), claimed the following:  "It doesn't literally mean SISTER, but rather that Maryam was akin to Aaron in her righteousness"  Bla.Bla.Bla

Funny!!! How come when the Quran tells us that Aaron was the BROTHER of Moses, they don't give the same explanation?

I agree that the word BROTHER or SISTER doesn't have to be in the literal sense, but when God calls Matyam the SISTER of Aaron, it means Maryam, Aron and Moses were contemporaries.

In the old testament, when The Israelites, led by Moses, safely crossed a body of water, and watched pharaoh (tyrant ruler of a walled town) drown (NOT THE PHARAOH OF EGYPT), we can read the following passage in
( Exodus 15: 19,20):  "And the horses and chariots of Pharaoh entered the sea, and the Lord sealed them in its waters, while the Israelites walked on dry land in the middle. And Maryam, sister of Aaron, took a "daff" (drum-like musical instrument) in her hand, and all the women came out behind her, playing and dancing".

Could this be the mother of Isa???  Could the "Isa" mentioned in the Quran actually be the nephew of Moses? If this is true, then it means that Isa came not 600 years before MUhamad, but the gap is much much longer!!

I started making a thread in this section, but never had the chance to finish it. It proved that "Isa" and "Jesus" are not the same name. They are two distinct Hebrew names.

When the Jews during Muhamad's time boasted of having crucified Isa, son of Mary, the Quran tells us that "SHUBBIHA LAHUM". What does this mean? Could it be that they confused Isa, the real nabi who lived in SW Arabia somewhere, and was born under a date tree, with the political rebel called JESUS who came to Plaestine centuries later seeking to overthrow Herod?

It is all slowly starting to fit together now... the historicity of Biblical Israel, Salibi's theory that has been supported by many Jewish scholars, the lack of any archeological evidence linking David and Solomon to Plaestine, or linking Moses to Egypt (Nile country), and the mysterious travel of Paul to Arabia....


What do you think? Please give feedback. I will elaborate more on the points when I can.

IronSky:
Peace to all,


Great post pazuzu,  I always enjoy reading your well thought out and researched opinions,  very interesting concepts. Keep up the good work bro.

Kurt

hope4:
Selam

Very interesting. Is there any evidence that the Jews were ever in Egypt? e.g. were there any writings? Egyptians took good records I am sure they would have documented such events.

Peace

Pazuzu:

--- Quote ---Great post pazuzu,  I always enjoy reading your well thought out and researched opinions,  very interesting concepts. Keep up the good work bro.
--- End quote ---

Thanx.  :) I hope I can find the time.


--- Quote ---Very interesting. Is there any evidence that the Jews were ever in Egypt? e.g. were there any writings?
Egyptians took good records I am sure they would have documented such events.
--- End quote ---

Absolutely NONE. We know every little detail about the life of Egytians (Nile country), their kings, priests, how they lived, ate, traded, etc... from hierogliphs and artifacts uncovered from under the sands. There is ZERO mention of Isrealites who escaped , or of "Pharaoh who drowned". Evrything that has been said about Mernephta and the possibility that he may be the Pharaoh mentioned is nothing but conjecture.

The word "MISR" in the Quran does NOT mean Egypt, nor is it a proper noun in any way, shape or form.

What is even more baffling is that the OT, despite recounting details of the life of the Isrealites in "Masrama", does not say anything about pyramids. You think they might have overlooked those collossal structures? (the OT mentions much more trivial things).

Proffessor Hertzog described the situation (of trying to link the Israelites to Palestine or Egypt) as one of total despair, and called for a complete re-evalutaion of Israelite history.

The evidence is begining to point to SW Arabia, near Yemen.

Rev.John:
All of this is extremely interesting. Keep it coming please

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