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5:82 Nasara, who are they?

Started by jaythikay99, October 21, 2009, 05:10:03 PM

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Anoushirvan

Peace free-minders,

We can read this:

2:113   And the Jews say: "The Nassaras have no basis," and the Nassaras say: "The Jews have no basis," while they are both reciting the Book! Similarly, those who do not know have said the same thing. God will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in what they dispute.

Nassaras are obviously not Christians, nor a Nazarenes (Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah) in the historical sense.
Jews, Christians, and Nazarenes share the Old Testament. They only disagree in its interpretation when it comes to the status of Jesus.

Old Testament is a too big collection of books for the Quran to assert that Jews say about Christian that they stand on nothing and reciprocally.

So really, Jews and Nassaras thought that they didn't share anything in common, not even OT.

Likewise, having discussed with Christians they don't understand why Quran says they took Mary as god as in
5:116   And God will say: "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you tell the people to take you and your mother as gods other than God?" He said: "Glory to you, I cannot say what I have no right of. If I had said it then You know it, You know what is in my self while I do not know what is in Your self. You are the Knower of the unseen."

They never said that.

To understand properly who were the Nassaras, we have to properly understand who was Issa ben Mariam. It is hadiths that say he is Jesus.
But look, arab Christians never speak of Jesus as Issa (3issa). They speak of it as Yassou3a. One is not another word for it. God does not roll His tongue.

And by the way, did you never notice that while Quran speaks of Romans (in Surah 30), it never speaks explicitely of Persians ?



Man of Faith

As far as I have researched on the word nasar I get it to baptism, the kind of thinking John the Baptist was into.

I track the root's origin to Saad-Ra-(Ra) and Sad-Waw-Ra. It can refer to resolution or (make a) preparation. It seems to mean that you take action in order to reform yourself. It is similar to the "slogan" of John the Baptist: "Repent, the Kingdom is at hand". John meant that you should wake up and do something about your own situation, cleanse yourself. The water baptism was probably symbolic to symbolize a fresh start.

And this means Nasara does not translate Christianity because the baptism that John came with was hence already in place when Jesus came.

In comparison Nasara and Yahood (Jew) were two sects that emerged about 2000 years ago.

The only comparable group that remains today to refer to Nasarene are a minority group who follow the teachings of John the Baptist in the Middle-East and whom are generally considered to be Gnostic.

The belief in Nasara ("baptism") is that you abstain hard from this world very similar to Buddhism because the world is "evil" and leads into temptation innately.

Modern Christianity does no have a lot to do with nasarenes except that Jesus followed that branch of tradition, e.g. when he came for baptism to John at the water.

The word Jew means that a person has recognized the truth and this recognition will lead to "Heaven". This stance is what Jesus verbally counters in many of his sayings when he talks about taking action for your salvation.

Be well
Amenuel
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Man of Faith

Quote
But look, arab Christians never speak of Jesus as Issa (3issa). They speak of it as Yassou3a. One is not another word for it. God does not roll His tongue.

عيسى is pronounced Yesoua, it is just the wannabe interpreters from past times who did not master Arabic very well and could not put the sequence together into a spoken phrase.

The Arabic you think people master is not the real Arabic.

The only person with a similar name as Jesus (Yesoua) was Yiseiua يسعى who interestingly prophesied a lot about the future and of whom still have active prophecies that have not yet come true.

Be well
Amenuel
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Anoushirvan

Peace Man of Faith

Quote from: Man of Faith on April 18, 2016, 08:48:12 AM
عيسى is pronounced Yesoua, it is just the wannabe interpreters from past times who did not master Arabic very well and could not put the sequence together into a spoken phrase.


The problem is that the word عيسى  begins with a 'ayn which is a consonant in arabic, not a vowel. It does not make sense for a native Arabic speaker to pronounce Ya, although western people often cannot pronounce it.

In hebrew, the closest word is עשו Esau, عيسو same consonant 'ayn at the beginning, but different ending vowel. This can be explained by passage to Aramaic language.
Transformation of vowel is easy to explain linguistically but transformation of consonant is harder to explain properly.

So really, Issa in Quran is actually Esau. Esau was never meant to be the stupid brother of  Israel, and son of Isaac. He was the true Messiah, rejected by Children of Israel.

(By the way, rabbis call christianism Essav...).

Quote from: Man of Faith on April 18, 2016, 08:48:12 AM
The Arabic you think people master is not the real Arabic.

The only person with a similar name as Jesus (Yesoua) was Yiseiua يسعى who interestingly prophesied a lot about the future and of whom still have active prophecies that have not yet come true.


It is really Yesou3a or Yeshou3a, with a consonant 'ayn at the end, like Yeshou3a bin Nun.

I wonder if the inversion of consonants 'ayn and sin in hebrew in Esau name wasn't done on purpose, so as to be sure to erase all Esau story.

Man of Faith

Yes, it begins with an ayn, but the second letter is Ye and in proper pronunciation it becomes from Eysua which when spoken sounds more like Yesua. It begins Eyy or Ay as different from Yesaiua يسعى. It has become linguistically made into Jesus in other tongues as that is how it may sound.

Those interpreters of Quran missed an important factor and that is ي must be clearly pronounced. Furthermore they did not pay attention to the origin of the language and ع is a special Ae (?) sound so ع and ي together would produce a sound like Aeysua.

عيسى is not Esau, it is not supported by the letters. The name would be spelled عسو with Arabic letters (Esow), these are the originally used letters from the past to write his name also in Hebrew/Aramaic. If you make Esau of عيسى you gravely mispronounce the word, no better than how the creators of Islam misinterpreted it.

And I apologize for not offering an explanation on how عيسى is Yesua  (Eysua) to begin with.

There are multiple prophets not mentioned in Quran, but also prophets that the creators of Islam left out when deciphering their fabrication of an interpretation such as يسعى (Yesaya) who indeed is mentioned in it.

Be well
Amenuel
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Man of Faith

And while people today speak of eternal punishment in Hell, Yesaya spoke that "one faces the consequences of their deeds in entirety". In other words it means that there are no more consequences than what their misdeeds are worth. The requital is proportionate.

As to what Jesus (Eysua) and John in Baptism taught the realm (Heaven) is at hand and there is no need of waiting, i.e. resurrection. What is required is taking proper action and cleanse yourself from within. Cleanse yourself out from this world.

Be well
Amenuel
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]