Author Topic: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?  (Read 6091 times)

jaythikay99

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5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« on: October 21, 2009, 02:10:03 PM »
Salam all




You will find the people with greatest animosity towards those who believe are the Jews and those who set-up partners; and you will find the closest in affection to those who believe are those who said: "We are nasara;" that is because amongst them are Priests and Monks, and they are not arrogant.



Who are Nasara?

and how the presence of monks and priests make those people friendly towards believers?

progressive1993

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2009, 02:38:40 PM »
Edip-Layth - End Note 22 (2:62)

...The Quran refers to the followers of the New Testament with the word Nasara (Nazarenes), rather than Masihiyyun (Christians). The root of the word has several implications. First, it might have originated from the Semitic word NaSaRa (to support), and originated from the answer given by the disciples of Jesus when he asked for their support for his cause (61:14). Or, it could have originated from the birth place of Jesus, Nazareth. Perhaps, it has a linguistic and historical link to both origins. Also, see 5:82. Knowing the motive of the Gospel authors to establish a stronger messianic link between Jesus and King David, by binding him through genealogy and birthplace, some scholars of theology justifiably question whether Bethlehem was the actual birthplace of Jesus, as is commonly accepted. Though Matthew acknowledges the fact that Jesus was called Nazarene (Matthew 2:23), both Matthew and Luke mention Bethlehem as his birthplace. However, Mark, which was written earlier, mentions Nazareth as the birthplace of Jesus instead of Bethlehem: "And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan" (Mark 1:9). For the Biblical verses referring to Nazareth, see (Matthew 2:23; 4:13; 21:11; 26:71; Mark 1:9,24; 10:47; 14:67; 16:6; Luke 1:26; 2:4,39,51; 4:16,34; 18:37; 24:19; John 1:45-46; 18:5,7; 19:19; Acts 2:22; 3:6; 4:10; 6:14; 10:38; 22:8; 26:9).

According to Christian scholars, such as Easton, "The name Christian was given by the Greeks or Romans, probably in reproach, to the followers of Jesus. It was first used at Antioch (Acts 11:26). The names by which the disciples were known among themselves were 'brethren,' 'the faithful,' 'elect,' 'saints,' 'believers.' But as distinguishing them from the multitude without, the name 'Christian' came into use, and was universally accepted. This name occurs but three times in the New Testament (Acts 11:26; 26:28; 1Peter 4:16)." It seems that some followers of Jesus adopted the name attributed to them by their enemies, and some continued using one of their earlier names, Nazarenes.


Edip-Layth - End Note 19 (5:82)

The word Masihiy (Christian) is not used in the Quran. The Quran refers to the supporters of Jesus with the Arabic word, Nasara, literally meaning "supporters" (2:62,111,113,120,135,140; 5:14,18,51,69,82; 9:30; 22:17). When Jesus asked them who would be his supporters in the cause of God, his disciples answered, "We are supporters of God" (3:52; 61:14). It is interesting that Jesus was called Jesus the Nazarene in the Bible, from the name of the town of Nasara. The name of the town Nasara (supporters) perhaps comes from what Jesusí disciples called themselves. Ironically, the name of the son of Mary was not Jesus either. Christianity, as the product of the Pharisee-son-of-a-Pharisee is a polytheistic religion with a fabricated name and falsely attributed to a fabricated idol (See 3:45 and 2:62). When we read this verse within context, starting from verse 5:77, it becomes clear that the Jews referred to in verse 5:82 are not all Jews, but those who are considered unappreciative of God's blessings and message.

abdalquran

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2009, 03:01:20 PM »
Totally disagree with Edip and Layth. They've transformed the Quran into a historical text where you need some history stuff to understand it.
Farouk A. Peru

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2009, 03:11:13 PM »
Totally disagree with Edip and Layth. They've transformed the Quran into a historical text where you need some history stuff to understand it.

What is the evidence that their statements are true or they are ANOTHER HADITH STUFF ?

Regards
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abdalquran

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2009, 03:29:20 PM »
What is the evidence that their statements are true or they are ANOTHER HADITH STUFF ?

Regards

I said i totally DISagree with them. If they're statements are 'true', would I disagree with them?

I did say earlier, Quranists are not free from their own hadith. This is a good example of it. Except they call it 'history'. Old wine in new bottles.
Farouk A. Peru

jaythikay99

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2009, 03:37:13 PM »
What is the evidence that their statements are true or they are ANOTHER HADITH STUFF ?

Regards

salaam brother

so who are Nasara according to your understanding?

Q_student

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2009, 03:49:15 PM »
I said i totally DISagree with them. If they're statements are 'true', would I disagree with them?

I did say earlier, Quranists are not free from their own hadith. This is a good example of it. Except they call it 'history'. Old wine in new bottles.

 :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Regards
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Ahmad Bilal

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2009, 04:06:00 PM »
For the most part, I agree with Edip and Layth's commentary on the issue. The word "nasara" seems to always refer to the Nazarenes, a group of Jesus' followers, who were in existence for decades until they were 'washed away' by the Catholic church. There is evidence suggesting that they may have still had a presence in the Middle East during the time of Muhammad... The Qur'aan mentions them abiding by the same scripture, which was, in the case of the ancient Jews and Nazarenes, the Torah.

The word Christian ("masihiyuun") never appears in the Qur'aan, and although the Trinitarian concept is mentioned, it is never tied to the Nazarenes. Therefore, it's likely that the Nazarenes didn't believe in the modern Trinitarian Christian beliefs. The "nasara" are also mentioned as adhering to the Jewish Shabbath, which is not practiced by traditional Christians. Also, the Qur'aan (5:5) says that Muslims are allowed to partake of the food of the "ahl ul kitaab" (people of the book). I don't think this is referring to Christians, primarily since traditional Christians don't have any eating restrictions; they believe that Jesus abolished all of the Jewish prohibitions. Rather, I take this as saying that the food of the Jews and Nazarenes are allowed to the Muslims, since the Islaamic 'haraam' foods are also prohibited in Jewish culture. Therefore, Muslims could eat the food of the Jews and Nazarenes, and they wouldn't have to worry about violating any Qur'aanic food prohibitions.

Personally, I don't think there's any Qur'aanic indication that the "nasara" are Christians, especially not the modern, traditional ones.
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Jack

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2009, 05:53:06 PM »
If nasara refers to 'nazrenes' and 'yahood' refers to jews, explain this verse:

5:51
O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as allies, for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from amongst you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people.



Nasara doesn't refer to 'Nazarenes', unless nazerenes also upheld the view that al masih is the son of allah (9:30) ?

Jesus' supporters upheld the view that 'the messiah' is the son of God?

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Ahmad Bilal

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Re: 5:82 Nasara, who are they?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2009, 06:57:29 PM »
If nasara refers to 'nazrenes' and 'yahood' refers to jews, explain this verse:

5:51
O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as allies, for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from amongst you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people.

I don't understand what you mean by this. The Jews and the Nazarenes were allies of eachother, since the Nazarenes were fully Jewish, and they observed the Torah. Therefore, in matters of conflict, they were allies of the Jews, even if it meant fighting against the Muslims.

Nasara doesn't refer to 'Nazarenes', unless nazerenes also upheld the view that al masih is the son of allah (9:30) ?

Many of the later groups of Nazarenes did believe that Jesus was the "son of God", but not necessarily in a completely physical sense. They differed from the Ebionites, since the later groups of Nazarenes began believing in ideas that the Ebionites and the Jews rejected, one case being the "virgin birth". That's why the two groups (Nazarenes and Evyonim) split up, the latter keeping their Jewish identity and the former eventually turning away from it.
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