Author Topic: prophets after muhammad  (Read 4838 times)

jaythikay99

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2009, 12:52:50 PM »
My simple questions not answered !!! (about the accuracy of the verses repeated 3 times in different surahs...). THINK ABOUT IT.


messenger brings the message. are we required to believe in any message after the quran, or will there be any?:

والذين يؤمنون بما انزل اليك وما انزل من قبلك وبالاخرة هم يوقنون

And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.

Jack

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2009, 05:55:33 PM »
khatam/ seal doesn't mean last. Aakhir is last.

Every prophet is a messenger and every messenger is a prophet. Al quran uses these terms interchangeably, e.g. 4:163-65.They are just different aspects of the same person, IMO. You might notice that its always the prophet being called out for making mistakes, never the messenger. The messenger's job is to deliver the message (3:20, 5:67 and 5:92).
 
Seal of the prophets refers to 3:81, IMO.
You gotta follow the truth even it brings the whole thing crumbling down around you - Sam Tyler, Life on Mars (UK)

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense

progressive1993

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2009, 09:17:36 AM »
33:40 Muhammad was not the father of any man among you, but he was the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. God is fully aware of all things.

Muhammad was the last PROPHET, but not the last MESSENGER.
Prophets bring books - messengers don't.
10:41 If they deny you, say: "My works are for me, and your works are for you. You are innocent of what I do, and I am innocent of what you do."

herbman

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2009, 10:11:38 AM »
33:40 Muhammad was not the father of any man among you, but he was the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. God is fully aware of all things.

Muhammad was the last PROPHET, but not the last MESSENGER.
Prophets bring books - messengers don't.

57:25
We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help unseen, Him and His messengers; for Allah is Full of Strength exalted in Might (And able to enforce His will).


here is my undestanding of it
 
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9598954.15

peace

Jafar

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2009, 10:31:24 AM »
"Prophet" a mistranslation from Hebrew "Navi" and arabic "Nabi"..
A "Navi" by definition is different from "Seer" / "Prophet" in Greek / Hellenistic culture

Wikipedia said it best regarding the definition of "Navi", from Hebrew cultural perspective..

"The meaning of navi is perhaps described in Deuteronomy 18:18, where God said, "I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them all that I command him." Thus, the navi was thought to be the "mouth" of God. The root nun-vet-alef ("navi") is based on the two-letter root nun-vet which denotes hollowness or openness; to receive transcendental wisdom, one must make oneself ?open?."

A "Navi" sometimes (but not always) conveys a prophecy on what would happen in the future..
But by definition; a "seer" / "prophet" does not necessarily a "Navi" as well..
And a "Navi" doesn't necessarily need to write a book.

Muhammad Ibnu Abdullah was stated as the "Seal/End Of All Navis".. (Qatamun Nabiyiin)
Thus from that point onward; God will no longer choose a humankind which will utter words which is actually God's words.

But that doesn't mean that God will be no longer provide guidance for humankind and/or sent out messengers..
He will just do it in 'different' way..

Salam / Peace

jaythikay99

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2009, 12:04:31 PM »
33:40 Muhammad was not the father of any man among you, but he was the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. God is fully aware of all things.

Muhammad was the last PROPHET, but not the last MESSENGER.
Prophets bring books - messengers don't.

salaam bro

how do you define a book?


Ahmad Bilal

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2009, 08:12:00 PM »
Peace to all,

I've been pondering the concept of "prophethood" for a while, and it's left me with a bunch of questions. First of all, the word "akhir"/last is used several times in the Qur'aan. So, why isn't Muhammad called the "last" (akhir) of the prophets? What exactly does "seal" mean in this respect?

Most of us draw the idea of Muhammad being the "final" prophet from traditional Islaamic sources (i.e. hadiyth and sunna). The Qur'aan never calls Muhammad the "last prophet", and those who have translated it as such have derived that concept from the hadiyths... Was Muhammad really the "last" prophet, or could there have been (and could there still be) prophets after him?
"The true delight is in the finding out, rather than in the knowing." - Isaac Asimov

RA786

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2009, 10:17:28 PM »
1)... meriam_prophethoodI dont mean to disrespect you but.... Have you ever Been on the "Wake up Project Forum Community"?
I dont know if it was you or someone of a similar name...Ill have to check... If not I apologize genuinely...If you are.... :nope:

and 2)... Come on. If we are to beleive that Muhammad is NOT the Last Prophet...then wow, lets just give up everything turn in your Belifes...and screw it...Lets all just become gods....  :brickwall: (astaghfirullah)

But seriously...Then anyone can just be a prophet...The Mahdi, the Ahymaddia's the Bahi's....hell even L Ron Hubberd...

The whole Point of the Quran was to be the LAST and FINAL Revelation.
You'll Notice that the Quran focuses most on ending of time... with few torah/Bible references...

If Muhammad is NOT the last Prophet...then what would a New prophet Bring? a New Quran? a New Book? what will the Book say?
Then it would just defeat the purpose of the Quran... wouldnt it Nullify it?

here are some questions...

1)Why didnt the Quran profisize about the comming of a New Prophet?
2)What would "Seal" mean?
 if it says Muhammad is the "SEAL" of the Prophet... what could that POSSIBLY mean other than Last?

It cant mean he is "The Seal[meaning Best]" because It says All prophets are not be have a Distinction between them. (no favoritism)....
So humm... Seal?...what does SEAL mean when used?

You Sign a SEAL...at the END of a Letter? You use a SEAL to "SEAL" or "CLOSE" something.....

If if Muhammad is the "SEAL" of the prophets wouldnt that mean that he is the last?

Like...Here is the Door of Prophets....Oh...and there goes Muhammad... so now the Door is Closed...it is Sealed... No more Prophets can enter.. lol  :rotfl:

Ahmad Bilal

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2009, 12:27:18 PM »
Peace RA786,

So, now YOU'RE God's interpreter, and YOU have to explain what He really meant?! Allah never said that Muhammad was the "last" of the prophets, it said that he was the "seal". If He meant to say "last" (akhir), it's pretty reasonable to conclude that He would've said "last", or any of the other words or expressions that directly imply it (i.e. final, end, conclusion, no other after, etc.). None of these terms were used. There is NOTHING in the Qur'aan that directly supports the conclusions that (1) Muhammad is the final prophet, (2) Muhammad is the final messenger, (3) the Qur'aan is the final book, or (4) the Qur'aan is based on the "end times", and no other book can apply to such... Actually, if you've ever read the Bible, it actually contains many "prophecies" allegedly relating to future events, even moreso than the Qur'aan...

If Muhammad is identified as the "seal" of the prophets, this could mean that he is the IDENTIFICATION (another usage of the word "seal") of the prophets, since he is said to have been spoken about in their writings. It could also mean that he is the CONFIRMATION or the VERIFICATION, which implies the same thing. It doesn't necessarily mean the "last" anything. If you mark something with a "presidential seal", does that mean you are putting the "presidential LAST" on it? Are the words "seal" and "final" interchangeable in your opinion? The ONLY sources that directly say that Muhammad is the final/last/conclusion/end of the prophets are the writings of the hadiyth and sunna, many of which are blatantly fabricated.
"The true delight is in the finding out, rather than in the knowing." - Isaac Asimov

Dariush

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Re: prophets after muhammad
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2009, 12:37:57 PM »
Sorry for coming into the conversation late. To me, "Seal of the Prophets" implies that the books of revelation are closed and completed. I certainly could be wrong. However, there is nothing in al Quran that identifies Rashad Khalifa as the Messanger of the Covenant as he claims. He was merely a scientist who ran numbers through a computer to unlock a numerological code.  This might seem a bit off topic, but it goes to the discussion about who can claim to be a prophet in this present age.
4:175. Those who believe in GOD, and hold fast to Him, He will admit them into mercy from Him, and grace, and will guide them to Him in a straight path.