Thank you brother ayman
Thank you for the link
Everyone understands that when someone says "we should wait until four full-moons had passed to do something" then this doesn't mean that we can do this something in between.
This is confirmed by 2:226-228 where we hear the same wording used for full-moon and menstruations. Both are events and counted the same way. Surely, you cannot be proposing that the woman who is asked to wait for 3 menstruations before getting married can get married in the time in between when she doesn't have her menstruation?! But this is exactly what your logic above would mean.
Sorry but I am not agree for the comparison with 2:226. In verse 2:226 it is clearly stipulated to wait for 4 ashor after the decision to abstain from wives. It is clear also that we don’t have to wait for 4 ashor every year.
It is not the case for verse 9:5. I don’t see any number four and any clear block of consecutive ashor.
In verse 2:194; 2:217, 5:2, 5:97 , Quran used the general expression of “shahr haram” and not “ashor haram”. This can be interpreted as if shahr haram was an institution and not block of ashor. Why mention shar haram individually ?
9:2; 9-5; 9-36 are verses where ashor haram, in plural form, are mentioned. I can read them without viewing a consecutive block of months.
17:12 talks about knowing the years from the day and night. The only way you can count the years based on the day and night is if you count the time between shortest/longest day/night since each distinguished solstice event occurs only once per year. On the other hand, we cannot use the equinoxes to count the year since equinoxes occur twice per year and it is only half a year between equinoxes.
Please read 36:39 to know what "measure" means with respect to the moon. It is the night where the moon is measured in descending stages until it reaches the crescent shape. Since the moon can ONLY descend in size from the full-moon so it is the night of the full-moon.
Here are verses where qadr appear with sense of measure.
In 73:20 we find the expression “God measures (Youkaddirou) the night and the day”
In 41:10, we find the expression 4 equivalent periods
وَجَعَلَ فِيهَا رَوَاسِيَ مِن فَوْقِهَا وَبَارَكَ فِيهَا وَقَدَّرَ فِيهَا أَقْوَاتَهَا فِي أَرْبَعَةِ أَيَّامٍ سَوَاء لِّلسَّائِلِينَ
sorry, but in 17-12, i don't see any mention of shortest night or longer day.
I saw on the web that there is other ways to identify equinoxes without having to measure the length of night and length of day.
where we can read this sentence:
"It is one of the oldest calendars in the world as well as the most accurate solar calendar in use today"
The persian year begins in the march equinox and you already mentionned a "story" where persian calendar was known and rejected by Omar el Khattab committee when they instituated the hijri calendar
To me "known" means that they are known irrespective of a book or traditions. The harvest moons are known naturally all over the world and in all cultures.
Notice also that I have read no good argument that prove that shahr ramadhan would be the first or the last or in the middle of the block of 4 ashor. There is no proof that the 4 month are the harvest in the year.
Notice also that arguments about hunting and harvest months doesn’t hold for south hemisphere. Equinoxes are always equinoxes anywhere in the planet while solstices are opposites in the south and north hemisphere
What fact? Where did you scientifically get that year 610 date from?? This 610 is a completely baseless date that has nothing to do with the great reading.
OK. It is a good argument. I have no proof that quran was revealed in 610.
Who Knows ? perhaps autum equinox of the good year match full moon ? 606 for example ?
I am interested in knowing if you have a theory about the good year and why you think that 610 is suspect.
Year 610 is the main reason why I thinked about new moon.
I agree that 36-39 seems to indicate that good counting should begin with full moon.
2-189 can then be reinterpreted, in terms of wrong doing, by the fact that jews begins theirs months with new moon while maintaining feasts during full moon.
Please read Lisan Al Arab carefully. There is no such meaning as new moon. On the other hand, the full-moon is clearly given as a meaning. Here is the original entry of Lisan Al Arab in Arabic:
شهر (لسان العرب):
والشَّهْرُ القَمَر، سمي بذلك لشُهرته وظُهوره، وقيل: إِذا ظهر وقارَب الكمال.
Clearly, Lisan Al-Arab states that "shahr" is the moon when it is apparent AND nearly FULL. It doesn't say anything about the NEW MOON. So the NEW MOON is a completely made up meaning. Also, the NEW MOON is not apparent and not clearly visible like you claim. If you disagree then please witness the new moon for yourself and take a picture of it yourself and post it here. You will never be able to do it probably for your entire life.
As discussed above, the inviolable full-moons have to be consecutive as per 9:5.
OK Full moon is more visible than new moon. I agree that it seems more correct.
The main argument for "New moon theory", as nowadays practiced, was year 610.
However, 2:203 can be interpreted as big precision is not required. 2 days before or after, no matter.
Also, the purpose of the harvest feast/hajj and the hunting restriction is in line with the timing. Christmas has nothing to do with Jesus. It was a pagan Roman fertility goddess birthday coinciding with the birth of the sun on the winter solstice. The pagan Arabs also had the same pagan concept and you can see its traces in what they falsely call "hajj" today. However, because of using the purely lunar calendar this pagan tradition doesn't fall near the winter solstice anymore.
Christmas was not a pagan Roman fertility goddess birthday. Please see the link i gave you.
Please read http://persia.edublogs.org/files/2009/03/article-christmas-is-an-old-tradtion-from-persia-a.pdf
I told you that jesus in not issa for me.
Now, if Hajj is feast then why we have 4 in quran and only 3 in “Judaism”.
Where is the last one ?
My theory, and I told you that it is more an intuition than a theory, is that the forth feast was erased from memory of jews at the same time they erased the true issa from their memory.
It is why I think that the 4 th missing feast is related to the true Isaa.
I mentioned already that, for me, the true issa is now known as Yeshua Bin Nun.
Yeshua was “the valet”, the “spiritual son” and the successor of Moses.
He delivered the land of Firaoun and installed bani Israel in it.
Yeshua mean jesus, Bin is the feminine of Ben and Nun mean Nun (devoted women).
I think that Issa/Yeshua is the son of Meriem, the prophetess and sister of Moses and the daughter of imran, the father of Moses.
So I think that Christmas is the feast of the true issa, whose story inspired many mythologies of son of god and virgin (mithra who was worhipped by Romans and imported from Persia, Horus, Juspiter, Jesus of Nazareth, and others…)