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The Quran and The Legends of the Jews

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Rami:
Hello free-minds,
       
        You are well aware that the People of the Book reject the Quran for the alien ideas found in the Quran and not in their Bible. These ideas are found in the jewish oral traditions eg. the midrash, talmud etc. For example;
1. The concept of seven heavens and seven earth
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj103.htm (ctrl+f and type seven)
2. The dispute regarding the creation of man between the angels and the fall of satan
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj104.htm
3. Abraham thrown into the fire
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj107.htm (searh furnace)
4. Solomon controlling demons by his command.
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj406.htm (search demons)
etc etc

What is the implications of this? Is this the golden argument for the oral jewish tradition? or is this how the jews hid the Torah? or is the Quran simply the work of the Rabbis? :brickwall:
Pretty scary. :&

Salam, Shalom and Peace.


Arnab:
Salam Rami,

Ok, you definitely have me curious now. I will be looking into this insha Allah. This is quite interesting and you are absolutely right, this could mean many things indeed.

Salam,
Arnab

ayman:
Peace Rami,


--- Quote from: Rami on November 08, 2008, 03:53:06 PM ---You are well aware that the People of the Book reject the Quran for the alien ideas found in the Quran and not in their Bible.
--- End quote ---

The view that the ideas found in the great reading are "alien" is a relatively modern viewpoint. The only people who found some ideas in the great reading ("quran") a little alien were the Romans and this was specifically in relation to certain aspect of their dogma such as sainthood and so on. Even later when Christians attacked alien ideas, they were not from the great reading but were from pagan corruptions. For example, by the mid 8th century (Abassid era) John of Damascus attacks the alien idea of venerating a black stone. This of course has nothing to do with the great reading and we find no such objections by early Jews and Christians. So those pagan corruptions crept into the newly founded religion later.

Also, when the great reading talks about ?the people of the book?, this doesn?t necessarily mean all Jews and Christians. In fact, the word ?Christian? is never mentioned in the great reading. 5:72-73 condemns as rejecters/"kuffar" Monophysites (5:72) and Trinitarians (5:73). Both are never called Nasara.

The Nasara and Jewish sects who lived in the Lakhmid province where the great reading was revealed were not your average Trinitarian Christian or Jews. The Nasara were probably not even considered ?Christians? by your average Christian. Fourth century CE Roman Christian writings such as those of Epiphanius talk about Nasara as a heretic Jewish sect. The beliefs of the Nasara fit the Nestorians or Ebionites. Although they took Jesus to be the son of god, they emphasized his humanity and rejected the Trinity.

The books that the Nestorians and other marginal Jewish sects that resided in the Lakhmid provinces used were probably very different to the mainstream Jewish and Christian books, which evolved into the Bible that we have today. So when the great reading talks about the Torah and the Injeel, this doesn?t mean the Bible that we have today.


--- Quote from: Rami on November 08, 2008, 03:53:06 PM ---These ideas are found in the jewish oral traditions eg. the midrash, talmud etc. For example;
1. The concept of seven heavens and seven earth
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj103.htm (ctrl+f and type seven)
2. The dispute regarding the creation of man between the angels and the fall of satan
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj104.htm
3. Abraham thrown into the fire
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj107.htm (searh furnace)
4. Solomon controlling demons by his command.
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj406.htm (search demons)
etc etc
What is the implications of this? Is this the golden argument for the oral jewish tradition? or is this how the jews hid the Torah? or is the Quran simply the work of the Rabbis? :brickwall:
Pretty scary. :&
--- End quote ---

By the time the great reading was revealed the Tamuld?s Mishna and the Midrash were not oral anymore. They had been written down for several centuries.

If you read the Hadiths, you will find the same thing. You will find many ideas that parallel some of those in the great reading but are embellished and remolded to fit a certain agenda. Not much should be read into this. It simply confirms that there is an earlier more authoritative source that the Rabbis borrowed from.

Peace,

Ayman

FAR:
The sun and moon were created after the Earth?

That's not what the Quran says.

Rami:
Thanks Ayman for the explanation. But what about the dead sea scrolls, none of these legends are found in them. God in the Quran asks people to bring the Torah and recite it. What Torah is this? This means the real Torah was found between the DSS and todays version??

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