Website Comments / Observations > Free-Minds.Org / ProgressiveMuslims.Org
The Message by "The Monotheist Group" - not representative
Wakas:
peace all,
This thread is about the translation available on this site (www.free-minds.org):
Available to download here: free-minds.org/quran.pdf
When the idea of this translation was suggested and the project underway in the early days there was significant enthusiasm for it. From my perspective, during the journey of translation it became clear there were and still are significant problems with it:
1) Even though it is often described as translation by free-minds.org / progressivemuslims.org / the monotheist group, it is simply not representative of a group. Whilst the ideas (perhaps most of them?) were formulated through group discussion, the primarly translator had the final say on everything.
2) There was no democratic process followed, meaning if there was a difference of opinion, the decision was made by the primary translator.
3) There was no audit trail, meaning the translation could be changed by the primary translator at any time to any meaning and no notification given or the change documented for public record. The so-called "group" were not informed. This happened many times, and still does.
4) When the first ever full draft was ready, there were two proof readers as far as I'm aware. Myself and one other forum member. We were only proof reading for English wording errors and any obvious errors in meaning but nothing thorough. Both proof readers were disappointed by the end of the process.
The reason I am bringing this to your attention is for several reasons:
1) It is still described as a "group" effort and I find this misleading to a certain degree.
2) Numerous errors and discussion points have been listed in this forum about the translation and a significant number have simply not been responded to. Thus to imply in any way it is free-minds.org translation yet not addressing the group's points is not representative and misleading.
3) Almost every time I use the translation I find errors in it. Most are small errors, but still, they are errors. It still needs significant work.
4) There continues to be critical flaws, e.g. no audit trail.
Having said the above, it must be said that the translation is still good, in comparison. Personally, I recommend the translation by M. Asad to non-Muslims wishing to read The Quran, even though the book version is annoyingly large.
To produce a Quran translation takes a huge amount of effort, so to produce a non-Traditional translation and get it out there is significant.
It must be noted however...
All translations are not about breaking the chains that shackle us, they are simply about making new chains.
Layth:
Salam,
--- Quote ---1) It is still described as a "group" effort and I find this misleading to a certain degree.
--- End quote ---
The `group` title represents the various input and feedback of so many people over the course of the years. It could always be called "Layth`s translation" but that would be misleading to a certain degree.
--- Quote ---2) Numerous errors and discussion points have been listed in this forum about the translation and a significant number have simply not been responded to. Thus to imply in any way it is free-minds.org translation yet not addressing the group's points is not representative and misleading.
--- End quote ---
Perhaps what you consider an `error` is a wrong judgement or conclusion on your part? I have looked at the various comments that have surfaced over the years. The ones that could be backed-up and made sence were incorporated, while the ones that didn`t were discarded.
--- Quote ---3) Almost every time I use the translation I find errors in it. Most are small errors, but still, they are errors. It still needs significant work.
--- End quote ---
If you do not highlight such small errors, then they can never be corrected. I appreciate all the posters who take the time to post a mistake when it is located.
--- Quote ---4) There continues to be critical flaws, e.g. no audit trail.
--- End quote ---
Audit trail for whom? The work is a translation rendering the best English meaning possible to the Arabic text. That this work continues to develop and improve is what is strived for. The last copy always overrides all previous ones.
anthonywallace:
Say: " Bring ten invented chapters like it. And call on whoever you can besides God if you truthful."
Arnab:
Salam Wakas and Layth,
--- Quote from: Wakas on August 13, 2008, 03:01:32 PM ---The reason I am bringing this to your attention is for several reasons:
1) It is still described as a "group" effort and I find this misleading to a certain degree.
2) Numerous errors and discussion points have been listed in this forum about the translation and a significant number have simply not been responded to. Thus to imply in any way it is free-minds.org translation yet not addressing the group's points is not representative and misleading.
3) Almost every time I use the translation I find errors in it. Most are small errors, but still, they are errors. It still needs significant work.
4) There continues to be critical flaws, e.g. no audit trail.
--- End quote ---
I agree with all of the above points.
Some suggestions for solutions (just some ideas off the top of my head which may or may not be possible):
Impliment a plan that allows members to openly discuss/evaluate/decide on translations. Maybe a wiki? Something that would allow the current translation to be continuously edited and evaluated by members.
Or begin a new translation from the ground up (not an easy task)
--- Quote ---Having said the above, it must be said that the translation is still good, in comparison. Personally, I recommend the translation by M. Asad to non-Muslims wishing to read The Quran, even though the book version is annoyingly large.
To produce a Quran translation takes a huge amount of effort, so to produce a non-Traditional translation and get it out there is significant.
--- End quote ---
I agree.
--- Quote from: Layth on August 14, 2008, 04:39:06 AM ---Perhaps what you consider an `error` is a wrong judgement or conclusion on your part?
--- End quote ---
I have also found many mistakes in the Free-minds translation, as have others I have talked to.
--- Quote ---I have looked at the various comments that have surfaced over the years.
--- End quote ---
It would be helpful if there was a conspicuous place where members could make suggestions for changes on the Free-Minds translation.
Personally, I was not aware that there was still an opportunity to suggest or make changes to the translation.
--- Quote ---The ones that could be backed-up and made sence were incorporated, while the ones that didn`t were discarded.
--- End quote ---
Who decides if they "Make sense?" Is it considered a group effort or is there one person who decides?
When one person makes the decisions regarding a translation, that person takes suggestions from a group but ultimately it is the opinion of one person. Therefore I agree with Wakas who said that it is not representative of the group.
--- Quote ---If you do not highlight such small errors, then they can never be corrected. I appreciate all the posters who take the time to post a mistake when it is located.
--- End quote ---
Are most members even aware that this is an option?
--- Quote ---Audit trail for whom?
--- End quote ---
When a project is being presented to the public as representative of a group opinion and group effort then that project should be reviewed and authenticated by the group (audited by the group).
--- Quote ---The work is a translation rendering the best English meaning possible to the Arabic text. That this work continues to develop and improve is what is strived for. The last copy always overrides all previous ones.
--- End quote ---
But this is just based on ONE person's opinion of what is the best English word for the Arabic text. The improvements are the opinion of the ONE person who is making the decisions.
Not to say that there is anything wrong with one person translating the Quran. It becomes a problem when it's one person who claims it is a group effort.
Salam,
Arnab
Layth:
Salam Arnab,
--- Quote ---I have also found many mistakes in the Free-minds translation, as have others I have talked to.
--- End quote ---
Please post them here if you can recall where they occured so they may be looked at.
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