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Chemistry in the Quran: Elements & Temperature

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DoctorNO:
018.029
YUSUFALI: Say, "The truth is from your Lord": Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it): for the wrong-doers We have prepared a Fire whose (smoke and flames), like the walls and roof of a tent, will hem them in: if they implore relief they will be granted water like melted brass, that will scald their faces, how dreadful the drink! How uncomfortable a couch to recline on!
PICKTHAL: Say: (It is) the truth from the Lord of you (all). Then whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers Fire. Its tent encloseth them. If they ask for showers, they will be showered with water like to molten lead which burneth the faces. Calamitous the drink and ill the resting-place!
SHAKIR: And say: The truth is from your Lord, so let him who please believe, and let him who please disbelieve; surely We have prepared for the iniquitous a fire, the curtains of which shall encompass them about; and if they cry for water, they shall be given water like molten brass which will scald their faces; evil the drink and ill the resting-place.
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According to Mohammad the said water would be like molten brass in what manner? heat? heat that would scald faces. If that is the case then this would be another fine example of the scientific errors in the quran for the lowest temperature by which brass melts is 900 degrees celcius. When at 374 Celcius the water molecules disintigrates into its component parts.

* A miracle? If so then the Allah would be an inefficient God. why waste energy transmuting water into a molten brass like matter instead of just serving molten brass?

* A figure of speech? Well mohammed used a poor choice of words...water like molten brass? its so wrong.

* Or just simply an error out of ignorance?

 8)

Sha:
Peace Doctor...

First of all I don't take scientific evidence as a criteria for believing that the Quran is a guidance for mankind...science has a habit of 'moving on'...progress, they say...

I think the best way to judge the Quran would be to judge the 'eternal principles' it presents...do they make sense to you or not? Let's say for your convenience that its not the literal word of God...But God's message to mankind delivered by using Muhammad's vocabulary...

If you have read Marx...and believed him...or Machiavelli...and believed him...or anyone for that matter...On what basis did you believe them? It wasn't blind faith in the man's wisdom for sure....You must have reasoned through their arguments...and either accepted them or rejected them...

Look at the Quran in the same way...its presenting a system...its promising some results...Do they make sense to you? Do you think the results it promises will come around if the system is followed? But for that...you'll first have to identify the 'eternal principles' that the Quran presents...since you are so bent on proving it wrong...have you tried to discover those principles?

I agree that we dont see a perfect example of what the Quran preaches...but in the same way that any other philosophy would not be rejected based on contemporary people not following it...so too with the Quran...

As for your present post...I'm not an expert...but tell me...is it that water will be like melted brass...or melted brass will be like water?

The point is it won't feel good...does that make sense to you?

:)

A believer in God and His system's perfection...

Sha

DoctorNO:

--- Quote from: "Sha" ---
I think the best way to judge the Quran would be to judge the 'eternal principles' it presents...do they make sense to you or not? Let's say for your convenience that its not the literal word of God...But God's message to mankind delivered by using Muhammad's vocabulary...

--- End quote ---


There are eternal principles like love, mercy and forgiveness. Anyone can write about those eternal principles.

However I am criticizing the Qurans claim that it came from God. Simply because it fails its own test that a literature that contains errors cannot have originated from God. So by that Yes the quran contains eternal principles however it could not be the word of a God.


--- Quote from: "Sha" ---
Look at the Quran in the same way...its presenting a system...its promising some results...Do they make sense to you?

--- End quote ---

No. The quran advices beating uncooperative wives. I dont think thats right. The quran advices giving half inheritance to daughters. I think thats unfair as an "eternal principle". It works only in the past.


--- Quote from: "Sha" ---
Do you think the results it promises will come around if the system is followed?

--- End quote ---

The miserable and unpeaceful Islamic nations proves that the promise does not work. So no.


--- Quote from: "Sha" ---
 But for that...you'll first have to identify the 'eternal principles' that the Quran presents...since you are so bent on proving it wrong...have you tried to discover those principles?

--- End quote ---

Yes like the love of desires mentioned in 3:14. Nothing uncommon.



--- Quote from: "Sha" ---
As for your present post...I'm not an expert...but tell me...is it that water will be like melted brass...or melted brass will be like water?

--- End quote ---

both are like each other in terms of their material state - liquid. however there is no way both can be like each other in terms of temperature.

If Allah only knew...  :shock:

AaRoN:
peace

now i've seen some stupid things in my day, but an agnostic arguing over the scientific (in)accuracies of descriptions of hell?

i'm going to tell all of my friends about this one!

please present to me your evidence of the temperature at which brass melts in hell. please present to me your evidence of the temperature at which water disintegrates into its component parts in hell.

if you have no evidence to prove otherwise, then to claim that such things are preposterous is scientifically invalid, isn't it?

also, i will once again take this opportunity to suggest to you to use multiple translations when investigating such things, especially if you are not willing to investigate the arabic itself!
this will help get you started. it even has a more literal translation for you! :D

--

if you maintain such an attitude towards the Quran, your chances of investigating the evidence up close will greatly increase. :)

mquran:
Peace Dr No,

About the promise of the Quraan for those who follow its teachings, You wrote:


--- Quote ---The miserable and unpeaceful Islamic nations proves that the promise does not work. So no.
--- End quote ---


Do you consider yourself an objective researcher, I wonder ? The fact that you related 'islamic nations' with Al-Quraan's teachings shows that you completely missed the point of the forum.

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