Author Topic: Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)  (Read 6263 times)

Layth

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Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« on: June 24, 2003, 04:54:47 AM »
Peace,

For all the legal brains who desire to see an Islamic constitution based on the Quran:

http://www.progressivemuslims.org/constitution.htm

I seek the opinoin of all the brothers & sisters here (especially Leila) to perfect this document.

Layth
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Wakas

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Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2003, 07:37:43 AM »
peace all,

I dont see how from this:
 
?And We taught him the making of armour for you to protect you from your enemy. Are you then thankful?? (21:80)

You can get this:

Right to Possess Arms.

All citizens have the right to keep arms in their place of residence for self defence use only. Such arms are never used to threaten other citizens and are kept safe from being mishandled or causing accidental injury.

I take it this means the right to possess guns?
Armour is primarily defensive, commonly something you wear. Other translators use "garments of protection/mail, shields" for this word. A clarification of the word may be needed.
Right to possess offensive arms is not a clear conclusion from this verse IMHO.


Wakas

ps - is Anwar helping in this project? He made some good points in other threads about the constitution.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

www.studyQuran.org

Nafisa

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Re: Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2003, 08:27:31 AM »
Quote from: "Layth"
Peace,


I seek the opinoin of all the brothers & sisters here (especially Leila) to perfect this document.

Layth


salaam

I'm no legal eagle but looking at the verse about drinking (as terrible as it is) I think thats something Allah has left to us. If you banned it in wouldn't it drive it underground and increase crime?

Layth

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Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2003, 09:10:23 AM »
Peace all,

Dear Wakas,

Quote
Right to Possess Arms.

All citizens have the right to keep arms in their place of residence for self defence use only. Such arms are never used to threaten other citizens and are kept safe from being mishandled or causing accidental injury.


Read what is underlined...There is no right to use offensivly which is why the verse and the law are in-tune...

Dear nafisa,

Quote
I'm no legal eagle but looking at the verse about drinking (as terrible as it is) I think thats something Allah has left to us. If you banned it in wouldn't it drive it underground and increase crime?


I thought of the same problem...I am trying not to promote bars and clubs, while at the same time not driving the use undergroud!.

Layth
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Wakas

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Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2003, 11:37:43 AM »
peace layth,

Fundamental rights of citizens should be clear, with little or no interpretation/extrapolation of a verse required. Therefore I still disagree unless further evidence is provided.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

www.studyQuran.org

AaRoN

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Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2003, 02:29:30 PM »
peace

as regards weapons:

4:102 And if you are with them and you attend to the salat for them, then let a group from amongst them stand with you and let them take their weapons; and when they have submitted then let them stand guard behind you; and let a group who has not yet attended the salat come and attend the salat with you, and let them be wary and take their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if there is harm to you from rain, or if you are ill, that you put down your weapons, but be wary. God Has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.
* the Divine suffices as observer - appreciation is the message of the Divine - and those who are with it are harsh on concealment and nurture between themselves *

Wakas

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Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2003, 11:17:28 AM »
peace Aaron,

Thanks for the reference.... thats more like it. "Their weapons" does indicate they are owned, therefore the right to bear arms seems more credible.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

www.studyQuran.org

Roshan

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Re: Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2003, 12:51:56 PM »
<<  ?And those females who commit lewdness together from among your women, then bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out. And those males who commit it together from amongst you, then you shall annoy them. If they repent and amend, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful.? (4:15-16)
>>

Firstly I would have to question if these verses actually refer to homosexuality (I have always wondered what they refer to). Secondly if they do (and even if they don't) why the difference in punishment between men and women?

I used to think that maybe this verse was referring to prostitution. This perhaps could explain the difference.

Roshan

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Islamic Constitution Draft (For Discussion)
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2003, 12:55:54 PM »
Also, with regards to the oath of allegiance- what happens if you do not believe in God/believe in gods?

<<?I swear before God an allegiance to the constitution and laws of the Islamic nation, to uphold at all times in private and public. I swear not to steal, nor to lie, nor to commit acts of lewdness. I will obey the law and attempt to live my life according to the moral and ethical values of the nation, to contribute my intellect and efforts to the betterment of life for all citizens. I have placed God as a witness over this oath of mine, may He have mercy on my soul and guide my heart and mind to always do right?.
>>

Kaz

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« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2003, 11:59:44 PM »
Any good constitution will be based upon ensuring certain rights & duties for & from the citizens of the nation. There should also be a list of social objectives of the constitutional system. If anything in legislation is later found to be hinder these rights duties or social objectives then it should be grounds for legislative revision. The constitution as it is makes too little of this section and lacks clear categorisation.

Before the constitution can be drafted the rights & duties for that nation must be outlined in a simple list.

Do not be mistaken, different nations demand and or deny diffent rights & duties. That is why it is so difficult for the world to come together on a set of universal human rights & duties.

What may be considered a basic & fundamental set of rights & duties to one nation may be considered severely restrictive by another & overly liberal by yet another.

The document of rights & duties MUST come before any constitution can even be attempted. It is amateur in the extreem to do otherwise, and will result in complications later.

First answer what should be our rights & duties? THEN and only then let the constitution be designed to protect & uphold those rights & duties. It goes almost without saying that those rights & duties must not be contradictory to each other, but at most may only balance each other out in pairs.

I would like to see a simple & clear list of all rights & duties before anymore premature attempts to outline a constitution.

Here are an example of two fundamental rights which I and those like me would demand. Moreover we would denounce any system as flawed & human which does not do the upmost to defend these rights.

1. The right of choice to to trial by individual religious or state court.
2. The right of any seduced single woman to alimony/marital-support.

Fundamentally I am dissappointed at what looks like an attempt to make Eleslem is being made in the image of american style democracy. Honestly this is what it looks like to me and I don't want it to, so any critic will undoubtedly see appologetics hidden behind a refusal to admit that islam has failed and is now being rebuilt on the foundations of the modern secular systems.
Q 43:89