Author Topic: Quran Translation Project  (Read 14254 times)

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11078
  • Karma +13/-2
  • Gender: Male
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #90 on: June 20, 2005, 04:39:13 AM »
peace be upon you Layth,

Firstly, I will re-paste the Qs not answered:

Quote from: "Wakas"
Did you put the changes of 5:6 and 4:43 in? To me, these are obvious.


Quote from: "Wakas"
In 2:196 it states "whoever enjoys in the visit until/to/ila al HJJ". I just noticed this. This makes the following highly unlikely: "whoever enjoys in the visit until the pilgrimmage" because the word "visit" implies they are already there, thus what further pilgrimage is this?


There were others, but they were all linked to the way in which you and I are understanding the word 'pilgrimage', so I will try and clarify. I am using the dictionary.com definition:

Quote
1. A journey to a sacred place or shrine.
2. A long journey or search, especially one of exalted purpose or moral significance.


In your view, does it involve journeying or not? Because it seems to me you are mixing this aspect up, or at least you have not addressed this properly. Is it 'journeying to the sacred place', or is it 'being at the sacred place'? Or is it both 'journeying and ending up there at the sacred place'? Please pick one, so I can understand your view and examine it properly.


Quote from: "Layth"
That the pilgrimage is to a destination goes without saying...There is no hajj if you are staying in your home oe in your town...the journey must be made by all to Bakka...Thus it is correct to be translated as 'pilgrimage' and not 'conference'.



Circular argument:

Quote
# Unsound reasoning in which it is argued both that A is the case on the grounds that B is the case and that B is the case on the grounds that A is the case. (Consider: ?That there is a god is reliably stated in our holy book, and we can be sure the holy book is reliable because it?s divinely inspired.?) Compare BEGGING THE QUESTION.
www.abdn.ac.uk/philosophy/guide/glossary.shtml

# The traditional use of the phrase 'Begging the question' describes a type of logical fallacy (also called 'petitio principii') in which the evidence given for a proposition is as much in need of proof as the proposition itself. A common form of begging the question is a circular argument, circulus in probando, vicious circle or circular reasoning in which the proposition to be proved is contained in one of the premises. As a concept in logic the first known definition in the West is by the Gre
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_argument


Please give me the specific evidence which proves it is to al bayt, if there is any.

22:27 shows HJJ is a vehicle/medium to call out with. This is unlikely (impossible?) for a 'pilgrimage'.

Quote from: "Wakas"
If you are using HJJ=pilgrimage, then how do you conclude that one of the core activities of pilgrimage is debate/conference? What specific signs or words are you using here?

Quote from: "Layth"
Because we are told by God that the people (al-naas) will witness benefits for them.


You went from the general wording 'witness benefits' to a specific core event of conference/debate? I would expect an explicit reference if this was the case, because 'benefits' could be many things.

Quote from: "Layth"
Finally, it is important to note that the purpose of Hajj is not only to meet and debate/discuss, but is to thank God for His blessing of livestock upon us...Changing the word will change the purpose.


No it would not. Holding an event such as a conference/symposium would require provision (e.g. food/drink) for its participants & visitors. This is done in many conferences today.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

tanveermd

  • Guest
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #91 on: June 26, 2005, 05:54:01 PM »
Salaamun alaikum brother Layth,

Following are some of the errors in translation that I have spotted in "The Message". I would appreciate if you can go through the following and all the specified links and correct the meanings in the pm translation of Al-Qur'aan:
 
1. 51:8 By the sky that is clear.
 
Should be:

51:8 By the sky that is weaved/woven
 
The arabic word is "hubuk" which means "weaved" or "interwoven" and not "clear"

That is proof of the "string theory" of subatomic particles. Following reference you will find intresting on this (under "the woven sky"):
 
http://members.aol.com/silence004/

 
2. 2:143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to know who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
 
Should be:
 
2:143 And as such, We have made you a balanced nation so that you may be witness over the people, and that the messenger may be witness over you. And We did not make the focal point that you became on except to distinguish who follows the messenger from those who will turn on their heels. It was a great thing indeed except for those whom God had guided; God was not to waste your belief. God is Merciful and Compassionate over the people.
 
Similarly
 
3:143 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God knowing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient?
 
Should be:
 
3:143 Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God distinguishing those who would strive amongst you and knowing those who are patient?
 
Similarly
 
9:17 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to know those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
 
Should be:
 
9:17 Or did you think that you would be left alone? God will come to distinguish those of you who strived and did not take other than God and His messenger and the believers as helpers. God is Expert in what you do.
 
Similarly
 
29:3 While We had tested those before them, so that God would know those who are truthful and so that He would know the liars.
 
Should be:
 
29:3 While We had tested those before them, so that God would distinguish those who are truthful and so that He would distinguish the liars.
 
Otherwise the implication is that The God does not know??? whereas He is Allknowing.
 
Please see the following for details:
 
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=45181&highlight=#45181


3. 4:4 And if you fear that you cannot be just to the orphans, then marry those whom you see fit from their mothers, two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair, then only one, or whom you are already betrothed to. This is best that you do not face financial hardship.
 
Should be:
 
4:4 And if you fear you can?t do justice to the orphans, then marry off the women (orphans/widows) who have agreed with you to by twos, by threes and by fours. But if you fear that you will be unfair then by one or what your oath possessed as this is better than getting into hardship.
 
See following for full details:
 
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=46738&highlight=#46738
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3533
http://www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/polygamy.html

 
4. 9:6 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the contact-method, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
9:12 If they repent, and they uphold the contact-method, and they contribute towards betterment, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.

Should be:
 
9:6 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill those who have set up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and uphold the bond, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.
9:12 If they repent, and they uphold the bond, and they contribute towards betterment, then they are your brothers in the system. We explain the revelations for a people who know.
 
Please see following link for details:
 
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/disproved_salatequalsprayer.htm

 
5. 2:185 A month in early autumn, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you can observe the season, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.
 
Should be:
 
2:185 Full moon of scorching heat, in which the Quran was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the full moon, then let him abstain it. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

See following for details:
 
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2757&highlight=full+moon
 

6. 4:16 And the two women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.

Should be:
 
4:16 And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from amongst you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death takes them, or God makes for them a way out.

 
7. 55:56 In them are attendants with a splendid look, unknown before by any human or Jinn.
 
Should be:
 
55:56 In them are best of fruits close by, untouched before by any human or Jinn.
 
55:70 In them is what is good and beautiful.
 
Should be:
 
55:70 In them is goodness/benefits most excellent
 
55:72 Companions, inside grand pavilions.
 
Should be:
 
55:72 Pure, confined in tents
 
56:26 And wonderful companions
 
Should be:
 
56:26 And pure/clear springs
 
44:52 So it is, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.

Should be:

44:52 So it is, and We granted/gave them pure springs

52:19 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We coupled them with wonderful companions.

Should be:

52:19 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We granted/gave them pure springs

38:52 And with them are attendants with a splendid look and of equal age.

Should be:

38:52 And with them are best of fruits close by and matching

37:49 And with them are attendants with wide eyes and a splendid look.

Should be:

37:49 And with them are springs, close by/within close proximity

37:50 They are like fragile eggs.

Should be:

37:50 Like crystal white, carefully guarded
 

For in depth explanation of the above translations from #7 onwards please check out the following link:

http://www.geocities.com/yaseen_q/hur-article.htm


If you do not agree with any of the above mentioned corrected translations then I would appreciate if you can give me a detailed explanation of why you think they are wrong.

Regards,

Tanveer

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11078
  • Karma +13/-2
  • Gender: Male
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #92 on: June 29, 2005, 11:06:24 AM »
http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=49208#49208

"...secure, with your heads releived and restrained/relinquished, having no fear..." [48:27]

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=48647#48647

"...and do not relieve your head (of this duty)..." [2:196]
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

tanveermd

  • Guest
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #93 on: July 31, 2005, 01:44:26 PM »
Salaamun alaikukm Layth,

23:64 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bare. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.

It should be "bear" and not "bare"

23:64 And We do not burden a soul except with what it can bear. And We have a record that speaks with the truth, they will not be wronged.

Regards,

Tanveer

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11078
  • Karma +13/-2
  • Gender: Male
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #94 on: July 31, 2005, 03:49:32 PM »
AAlameena (plural, e.g. 1:2) = beings/creations

Quote from: "[url=http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2309
thread[/url]"]Please see the following signs which clearly demonstrate the meaning of AAalameena: 7:80, 15:70, 26:23, 26:165, 29:6, 29:10, 29:28, 44:32

some examples

And We have chosen them, knowingly/knowledgeably (AAilmin), over the creations/beings (AAalameena). [44:32]

Do you approach the males of the creations/beings (AAalameena)? [26:165]

Pharaoh said: "And what is the Lord of the creations/beings (AAalameena)?" [26:23]
He said: "The Lord of the heavens and the earth and all that is between them, if you are aware" [26:24]


Like all suggested changes, a reason should be given IF not implementing the suggested change.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11078
  • Karma +13/-2
  • Gender: Male
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #95 on: August 21, 2005, 07:27:15 AM »
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Jaxal

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2960
  • Karma +1/-1
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #96 on: August 21, 2005, 12:05:51 PM »
SaLaM

And the counter argument to Wakas's notion of "Abu Lahab" not being a name.

see:

http://www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=52332#52332
She Made Me See The World In A Grain Of Sand.
When The Only Choice You Have Left Is The Wrong One, It'S Not A Choice Anymore... It's Fate.

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11078
  • Karma +13/-2
  • Gender: Male
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #97 on: August 21, 2005, 02:59:08 PM »
Please see brother Ayman's article on so-called proper names:

http://www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

The original FM/PM translation had 'abu lahab' as 'father of flames', no reason was given for its change as far as I'm aware.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Jaxal

  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 2960
  • Karma +1/-1
Quran Translation Project
« Reply #98 on: August 21, 2005, 04:48:59 PM »
SaLaM Wakas

Seen it, read it and understood it. And it changes nothing.
She Made Me See The World In A Grain Of Sand.
When The Only Choice You Have Left Is The Wrong One, It'S Not A Choice Anymore... It's Fate.

Wakas

  • Administrator
  • Wise One / Burnout
  • *****
  • Posts: 11078
  • Karma +13/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Quran Translation Project
« Reply #99 on: February 17, 2008, 05:57:23 AM »
peace Layth, all,

I cant recall where the other thread is for revisions but this one will do.

Before I post another, I would like to highlight some of the others above have not been implemented, meaning they are still present in 'The Message' and still incorrect (in my opinion).


In 35:10

The suffixed pronoun in (yarfa3uhu it/he) is ambiguous because it can refer to either the righteous deed or "whoever" in the beginning of the verse. Thus I believe the possibilities are:

"Whoever desires honour, power and glory then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory. To Him ascend the goodly words and the righteous deed raise him......"

"Whoever desires honour, power and glory then to Allah belong all honour, power and glory. To Him ascend the goodly words and the righteous deed He raises it....."
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org