I also agree that you are not seeing the real purpose of our discussion. Your conclusion is that 'shahr' equals time, a month, and my conclusion is that it is most consistent in the reading that 'shahr' should be 'full moon' so you can't point out to me I am wrong using your conclusion. I already included that the these two definitions do not equal each other. I have looked at your perspective and I see inconsistencies which aren't there with using 'full moon' so we will have to agree to disagree.
I have 2 more points. You bolded when I was quoting YOUR question about '4 sacred full moons', I do not agree that the word 'hurum' equates to 'sacred' which to me has religious baggage attached to it. Here's how the god explains what He means by 4 (arba'a) hurum:
9:36 Verily the count of the shuhur with the god is twelve sharan in the book/ decree of the god the time He created the skies and the earth from them are arba'a hurum. That is the straight/ valuable obligation so do not oppress/ wrong yourselves within/ during them...
2:217 They are asking you about the shahr haraam fighting therein. Say fighting therein is kabeer...
5:95 O you who have believed do not kill the game while you are hurum
9:2 So travel through the earth arba'a ashhur and know that you cannot outstrip/ escape the god...
9:5 So when the ashhur hurum have passed then fight the mushrikeen wherever you find them...
In 9:36, 2:217 and 5:95 the God is telling us what not to do during these 4 hurum which is why they are described as hurum. In 9:2 one may wonder about why 4 ashhur, what's the significance so in 9:5 the god is confirming that these are the ashhur hurum in which, by 2:217, the believers are discouraged from fighting within this time frame which leaves the mushrikeen free to travel without worrying about the believers attacking them in anyway, what they do is something else. Importantly as well the god tells us this:
5:2 O you who have believed do not tuhilluu the sha'aair of the god nor the shahr haraam nor the...
This is another command showing the importance, according to our Creator, of the shahr haraam so it has nothing to with 'sacred' and idolization, I seek refuge with the god from shirk.
I hope from the god's verses you understand what hurum stands for now. Our debate is only whether does the word 'shahr' mean 'month' (something arbitrary) or ' full moon'.
Here is my last question to all who share your view on this point if any can answer CLEARLY, it's really important to me.
As a new muslim, I am faced, during the study of the god's book, with the issue of whether shahr means full moon or month. When I first was made aware that shahr had the meaning of full moon I was astounded and it automatically cleared up my confusions with verse 2:185 when it's translated using 'month' with the words (new crescent of ) added to the verse. Then I realized that if we don't take the meaning of ramadan and take it as a meaningless name then how on earth would I know when it is without referring to the arab sunni calendar? I've already been duped by them so how can I trust them on anything relating to the god's message? Without their calendar then that would mean that the god's book is not complete on it's own nor provides a clarification for everything. That would be a big blow to belief itself. Or am I to make up my own calendar, still it must be based on the god's message.
So now I am asking all of you, if I take shahr to be 'month' in 2:185 1. how do I know what that month is without referring to tainted outside sources? 2. how do I know when that month is without referring to tainted outside sources?
My only conditions for the answers I am seeking is that it should be based on the god's book alone without distorting any meanings and that the answer wouldn't violate the 4 hurum.
Umm Tariq
Peace Um Tariq,
Shahr has two primary meanings:
1. apparent, conspicuous, manifest, notorious notable, commonly known
2. The moon: or the moon when conspicuous and near to being full.
Ramadhan has two primary meanings:
1. mourning, feeling sad, suffering, bothering, concerning
2. scorching heat
Haram means:
1. forbidden, prohibited, unlawful.
In God?s book,
shahr is used to mean manifest in some verses and it is used to mean the full moon in some other verses. The meaning depends on the context and subject of the verse.
The word
ramadhan is used only once in Good?s book (in 2.185) and its meaning is ?suffering, bothering, and concerning?
The word
haram is always used to mean ?forbidden, prohibited, and unlawful? and it never means sacred.
Uncontrolled fantasies cause a miserable life for the human being and society and makes life as hell. Hell is all fire and suffering. The obvious suffering (
Shahr ramadhan) is caused by the people when they are controlled by their fantasizes and they go astray. The obvious suffering is in the hearts and surroundings of the people. The great reading was descended as a guidance for people and clarifications from the guidance and the criterion when this intensive suffering which is caused by the fantasies of people was obvious.
Therefore we can translate 2.185 as follows:
2.185 The
obvious/clear/apparent/noticeable suffering is when the reading was descended as a guidance for people and clarifications from the guidance and the criterion, so whomever among you experiences/witnesses the
manifestation/sign/symptom, shall self discipline himself. And whomever was sick or traveling so a count of other days. The God wants to facilitate and not make it hard on you. And so complete the count and magnify The God for what He guided you and perhaps you would be thankful.
If we take
shahr ramadhan as ?
the physical scorching moon after the summer solstice? or ?
month? it will be difficult to imagine how all the people (blind or not) living on the earth or on a space station (in future) may experience this shahr ramadhan. On the other hand it is possible to experience the obvious suffering caused by the uncontrolled hidden fantasies of the people wherever they are.
This is explained in chapter 19 in verses 25 to 29:
19:25 And shake towards you the palm tree, it will drop ripe fruits.
19:26 So savor* it, and relax, and when you see anyone, then say, "I have pledged to the Almighty a "syauman"; therefore I shall not converse, today to anyone.'"
19:27 She went with it to her people, carrying him. They said, "O, Mary, you have committed indecency".
19:28 "O sister of Aaron; your father was not evil, nor was your mother unchaste."
19:29 Hence, she pointed at him; they said, "How could we converse with the messiac (Mahdi) infant?"
Did Mary witnessed ?
shahr ramadhan??
She was blamed of committing indecency by her people. She witnessed the
obvious anger of her people and she witnessed/experienced her obvious feelings of sadness and distress. She had to SELF DISCIPLINE herself before she meets her people.
She was righteous in the way she dealt with her people.
2.183 ?O you who believe, SIYAM has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be RIGHTEOUS?.
The main purpose of SIYAM is to become RIGHTEOUS.
The Saum of Maryam is an example for us because she is one of those before us. One can become righteous if he trains himself or self discipline himself and abstains from uncontrolled fantasies that cause a miserable life for the human being himself the and society. I am not sure if not eating and drinking for some period may cause one to be righteous.