Author Topic: Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...  (Read 686 times)

Tay

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Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2004, 01:08:23 PM »
Peace Nadia,

The exposition/translation is called "The Qur'an as it Explains Itself" or "QXP".

www.galaxydastak.com

Peace,
Tay
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

zenje

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Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2004, 02:25:46 PM »
Ah Nadia, don't you just love meaningful (hopefully, productive)  discussions?... :D

I see me being the pessimist in this conversation, you feel that there is a way... for now, I don't see it. I hope there is, don't get me wrong...

Here's the deal, you've got a bunch (about a billion actually) of people who blindly follow some set of rules, constantly enforced by the leaders. There's no shortage of these 'leaders'... kill them, put them away, do what you want... more will pop up, more will fight you (kinda like hellboy, if you saw it! :wink: ) So there may be a way to go about it, but as you said, even nuking  won't put them down... plus, it's not worth it, for either side.

Quote from: "savage"
...likewise if we can remove these idiots from the scene and create an environment of freedom and liberal thought...

I think that's an oxymoron. You remove idiots to create an enviroment of freedom... see, by removing the idiots, you've removed the freedom. You've instilled an 'enviroment' that you think is right. The only way, I see, (and I realize my vision is limited) is to show people the message. There's another way out there. You don't have to be opressed. You don't have to choose aethism because the version of 'Islam' you think you know, is all there is... I think you know where I'm heading.

Quote from: "savage"
I've seen something, that the sense of God is either present in a person or not, no matter what his background is...

Yess!... agreed... and I think, that it's there in EVERYBODY, it's whether they choose to see it or not. many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it... most of them don't even know what they're fighting about. I used to be one of those. Get all emotional and aggressive on hearsay. :roll:

How did I get here?... God guided me. AlHamduliLlah! :D

Salaam

Zein
If they turn away, then Say: "God is enough for me, there is no god but He, in Him I put my trust and He is the Lord of the great throne." [9:129]

savage_carrot

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Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2004, 03:48:48 PM »
Salam Zein...

I'm with you on the productive discussions...now that the disturbing/distracting elements gone  :) I hope you see my point as to how this can affect society in general??!?

I know its a long hard road and we can get very pessimistic, but duty being duty, God wants you to stay away from apathy... we have to do something/anything to change the destructive course a country/society takes...and showing the people the message is a big part of it, but not all we and the govt/society have to do...

To change the tide/wipe the slate clean...God has over centuries destroyed communities/cities/societies so that we learn a lesson, hopefully, from them...those societies were so deep and way off the path that there was no other way...it was hopeless or their time had come, whichever way you would like to put it...Every generation has this duty to eradicate/control these destructive elements in their society as well as to enlighten people...and yes, these elements will turn up again and again...meaning it ain't over till it's over...but that doesn't take away from what we have to do...

It can be taken as an oxymoron i suppose, but i was thinking of a country like pakistan...to change the highly destructive path it has taken, you can either have a bloody revolution or a thorough cleansing of the system...by 'banning' such elements you have a much better chance of getting somewhere! The message can be heard and practised far more efficiently when the country/community/society is free from the damning shackles of so called religious thought, these clerics/mullas. They eat away at the ties that bind so to say....

I haven't seen hellboy as i'm waiting for it to come out on dvd/video...have heard really good reviews about it...but after seeing the thoroughly stinky daredevil... have ventured towards these comic/graphic novel characters with much warranted trepidation....not all of them are bad...like van helsing...i am going to watch it whether it's a dud or not...underworld was so cool...but the reviews said it sucked..to each his own! btw if you get a chance, do try to rent firefly...it's one of the best scifi's ever...well i think so at least... :)

peace

Nadia
God has a plan, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone.

Atreides; LeAdderNoir

Mommy24

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Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2004, 09:49:34 PM »
Quote
Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it. Were you listening to me Neo, or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?


Wow!  I should watch that movie again. :)
If you are right and speak the truth, then you have nothing to prove.

savage_carrot

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Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2004, 11:12:02 PM »
Peace Tay

Its a very interesting translation...but I'm a bit confused, I would like it if you would help me out...reading the first sura, I found it to be very rich in its language and as i'm used to reading sparse/dry translations...i'm a bit wary as to how it's translated (how exactly and why did he put so many words in one line of an ayat, which otherwise is just translated as a line?)...i'm going to read the preface in its entirety but would appreciate it if you could sum it up for me...Thanks in advance!

Nadia
God has a plan, Gaius. He has a plan for everything and everyone.

Atreides; LeAdderNoir

Tay

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Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2004, 02:05:29 AM »
Peace Nadia,

The preface answers your question much more eloquently than I could. Here's a snippet:

The Author of the Qur?an is none but Almighty God. However, since the Book before the reader is an English rendition by an ordinary servant of God, Shabbir Ahmed, he is the author of the rendition.

The work before the reader, although close to a translation, is also an understanding from within the Qur?an itself. This Divine Writ calls itself AN-NUR (The Light) and light needs no extrinsic sources in order to shine. Therefore, I have based my presentation on two principles:

1 ? Focus on the Language in which the Qur'an was revealed.
2 - Make use of TASREEF (how the Qur'an repeats its messages / verses in various ways).

I have translated the terms and linguistics of the Qur?an in the Quraish dialect since it is the Arabic dialect in which the Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad bin Abdullah, the exalted Final Prophet, Messenger and Apostle of God. (570-632 C.E.)

The first ever commentaries of the Qur?an were written in the third and fourth centuries after the exalted Messenger, during the Abbasid Dynasty, when Zoroastrian influence held sway in Islamic politics, society and the Arabic writings. The commentators of the Qur'an, the historians, MUHADDITHIN (Tradition collectors) and FUQAHA (Jurists) overwhelmingly originated from among non-Arab Persians.

Late Allama Ahmad Amin Al-Masri sums up the end result in his excellent work FAJRIL ISLAM:

?Very surely, the reader will agree with me that the Persian literature gave an entirely alien complexion to the Arabic linguistics.?

Many celebrated thinkers and authors in the Islamic world have strongly agreed with the great Egyptian scholar Ahmad Amin on this score. We need not go into details since the point will make itself sufficiently clear when, shortly, we will cite some examples.

HOW WAS MANKIND ROBBED of the Creator's Final Revelation - the Revelation that He Himself defines, ?And this your Lord?s Grace is better than all that they may amass? (43:32)?

By 'robbing' I mean giving alien, erroneous and misleading meanings and concepts to the original matchless, powerful and glorious Qur'anic terms. Here is how it happened:

One - THE FIRST DILEMMA: With reference to the foregoing: While the language of the Qur?an remained untouched, its words and terms were made to lose their splendor that the plain Arabic conveyed. So much so, that the weak and erroneous concepts prevalent in the once Zoroastrian culture of Persia, and then given to the Qur?anic terms became ?MA'RUF? (well-known and accepted) even among the Arabs!

This staggering TRAGEDY explains why, how and where, even the ARABIC KNOWING PEOPLE FALL AND LOSE THEIR TOUCH WITH THE QUR'AN! The Qur'an describes this STAGGERING TRAGEDY most eloquently,

"And the Messenger will say: O my Lord! These are my people, the ones who disabled and made this Qur'an of no account." [(25:30). MAHJUR = They had immobilized it like villagers who bind a cow by tying her front foot to her horn]

This ill treatment of the Divine Message and filling the consequent void with conjecture is THE cause of their downfall, and that of the Muslims in general, on a Global scale.

Any nation that stays with or owns this Divine Writ in letter and spirit can make the world a paradise on earth. The early Islamic history is a great testimonial to this claim but we will explore this point a little further.
And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. [27:88]

Wakas

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Protecting the freedom of the grey areas...
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2004, 05:39:33 AM »
peace Zein, all,

Quote
The only way, I see, (and I realize my vision is limited) is to show people the message. There's another way out there. You don't have to be opressed. You don't have to choose aethism because the version of 'Islam' you think you know, is all there is... I think you know where I'm heading.

savage wrote:
I've seen something, that the sense of God is either present in a person or not, no matter what his background is...

Yess!... agreed... and I think, that it's there in EVERYBODY, it's whether they choose to see it or not. many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it... most of them don't even know what they're fighting about.


Nice comments brother.

Empowerment is the key to unlocking the shackles placed upon us.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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