Author Topic: Protecting the freedom of the grey areas... (Read 685 times)

savage_carrot · « **on:** May 25, 2004, 06:57:12 AM »

Salam All

We were discussing this last night that areas where God did not specify how to do things that He has told us to do, come in a grey area...things which are forbidden and things which are good come in black and white areas so you are left with how to do them as there is no one way to do it...whatever we think is best, we should do it that way, as long as we can have our reasons and are comfortable explaining them to God eventually.

This grey area is left deliberately, so that people throughout time can decide for themselves what is best suited to them as long as they are not violating anything that God has told us in the book...it is imperative that we do not forbid what He hasn't told us to...So some ways might be better and some ways not so good but it isn't wrong to do it any way you like to. As long as you understand that God left it up to you.

Take for example, our way of communicating with Him...you can do it any which way as long as you get that link going...whether you choose to do it in a particular way because of certain preferances, e.g sitting in a 'special' place because you like it...or not...We can argue that it's best not to make a habit of something, because one day you might have to break it, but it isn't wrong as long as God hasn't told you it is... and you can't make judgements pertaining to God, specifically in regards to a grey area, comes down to opinion and personal preferences...

Another example is music...it's a grey area where there are specific boundaries about what is good and what is bad...lewdness is bad therefore most rap music (okay, some of it

) is bad because it has that in it...but classical music is fine...and then there's the grey area in regards to what falls in between, like say, Led Zeppelin...It has a lot of sexual innuendo, but it isn't explicit. Therefore I might say say its okay (in my opinion as it falls in the grey area and I get to decide) and someone else might think it not okay. Here's the thing, it's personal opinion and it's not violating anything that God said is forbidden/bad.
So you have to make your own judgements (which cannot be enforced on people, e.g: this is the only right way..do it or else) in the grey areas and this personal freedom is very important to protect or we'll be no worse than the extremists...

Do you agree?

Peace

Nadia.

AMS377 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 25, 2004, 07:32:02 AM »

Yes. Ijthihad is very important and must defeat taqlid.

savage_carrot · « **Reply #2 on:** May 25, 2004, 10:25:00 PM »

*post edited by myself* sleep deprived...pls disregard...thanks!

pilgrim · « **Reply #3 on:** May 26, 2004, 07:24:53 AM »

Ummm....... :? ........exactly......... :?

Tay · « **Reply #4 on:** May 26, 2004, 07:58:19 AM »

Peace Nadia,

I agree completely. The grey areas, as you've described, are what make us individuals.

5:48...If Allah had willed, He could have made all of you humans a single people. But, He decided to let you choose your own path after showing you the Truth, and thus test yourselves. Outdo one another in actions that serve humanity and thus grow your ?Self?. To Allah is your final Destination, of all of you. Then He will make you understand where you differ.

39:18 Who listen to what is said and follow what is best. And they truly listen to the Word and see what is best applicable in a given situation. Such are those whom Allah guides, and they are the ones who grow in understanding.

3:159 ? Once you have taken a decision, put your trust in Allah. Allah loves those who do their best and then trust in Allah.

Peace,
Tay

savage_carrot · « **Reply #5 on:** May 26, 2004, 10:38:58 AM »

Salam Tay

Beautiful verses...thank you!

May I ask which translation that is??

Nadia

zenje · « **Reply #6 on:** May 26, 2004, 10:44:19 AM »

Salaam savage and all,

I agree. But what would the maulanas/sheikhs/etc do? :lol:

savage_carrot · « **Reply #7 on:** May 26, 2004, 12:08:19 PM »

Salam Zenje

Mustafa Kemal:

Quote

For nearly five hundred years, these rules and theories of an Arab Shaikh and the interpretations of generations of lazy and good-for-nothing priests have decided the civil and criminal law of Turkey. They have decided the form of the Constitution, the details of the lives of each Turk, his food, his hours of rising and sleeping the shape of his clothes, the routine of the midwife who produced his children, what he learned in his schools, his customs, his thoughts-even his most intimate habits. Islam - this theology of an immoral Arab - is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes in the desert. It is no good for modern, progressive state. God's revelation! There is no God! These are only the chains by which the priests and bad rulers bound the people down. A ruler who needs religion is a weakling. No weaklings should rule!

It's interesting...he had half a good thing there...I heard from my father quite some time ago, that when he took power, he invited most of the mulla's, that he thought were dangerous to his vision, on a ship where there was some sort of mediation that was supposed to happen, some political deal of sorts...and then when they arrived, bombed it to hell...I tried searching for it but couldn't come up with anything...maybe it was hidden from the public or my father's wishful thinking...but who knows, there are many conflicting reports about him, some historians, mostly islamic :wink: have it in for him...so i can't get a very accurate picture of who he was....
But, where i grew up, Pakistan....these same mulla's are the very devils themselves...they damn society to a slow agonizing death while claiming it's all for God ... most of the educated class there realize their destructiveness, but they are so entrenched in society that it'll take a bloody revolution to weed them out...they are most certainly the biggest threat to any reform in any country...not that i'm endorsing killing 'em off...heck we should just arrest them on 'blasphemy' charges and let them relax where they can't do any harm...

But that's just my opinion....

Peace

Nadia

zenje · « **Reply #8 on:** May 26, 2004, 12:40:38 PM »

Quote

but they are so entrenched in society that it'll take a bloody revolution to weed them out... not that i'm endorsing killing 'em off...

Not even killing them, not gonna work. As you said, it's entrenched in society. How do you change a person's mind? Unless they want to change themselves! The followers will quickly appoint a representative. They will fight with all their might to keep the religion up where it belongs (atleast according to them! :twisted: ) I keep remembering this quote from morpheus to neo (in The Matrix)...

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it. Were you listening to me Neo, or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?

savage_carrot · « **Reply #9 on:** May 26, 2004, 01:07:18 PM »

Salam Zenje

I guess i was looking at the woman in the red dress

No, but seriously...you have a point...but the question is how do we allow that change to take place, how can we help it to come about? do we need to change a person's mind or remove bad influences from the society and let him think for himself?

When we discussed this last, there was one thing there...look at japanese culture/society...for almost 2000 years they have consistently raised themselves after revolution upon bloody revolution...even the nukes couldn't keep them down....these people were something even in a feudal society...they have a very strong sense of something bigger than themselves, for them their country/national/cultural pride and that's what makes them cohesive and efficient as a whole...these people didn't need to be educated (their serfs in feudal society had a sense of it), maybe their heads at the time instilledsome kind of patriotic sense in them??

But see, that can be done in any country, what pride/sense of worth you can subject people to, from a govt's perspective is up to them...likewise if we can remove these idiots from the scene and create an environment of freedom and liberal thought...the foolish will stick to their guns (doesn't matter in the long run as long as the govt can control them) but maybe a lot of them can finally be free from stagnation (changing themselves) allowing society/country to move forward in leaps and bounds...

I've seen something, that the sense of God is either present in a person or not, no matter what his background is...but to allow freedom of thought and a functioning/productive/enlightened society/culture depends entirely on creating an environment that will allow freedom of thought to take place..obviously some manner of control is necessary to see that people don't abuse that freedom and/or violate any of God's commandments...but yeah...i think (maybe not fully thought out yet) that thats the way to go!

Nadia