Author Topic: ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?  (Read 3861 times)

marie

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ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?
« on: December 09, 2003, 01:57:37 AM »
Peace,


I?d like to know the difference between (the near part of the night = wazulufan mina allayli in 11 :114)  and (the darkness of the night / the obscure part of the night = ghasaqi allayli in 17 :78 )

Does the obscure part of the night / the darkness of the night   = the near part of the night  ?



Thanks

Marie
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ayman

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Re: ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2003, 08:01:40 PM »
Peace Marie,

I think that the answer to your second question will make the answer to your first question obvious.

Quote from: "marie"
Does the obscure part of the night / the darkness of the night   = the near part of the night  ?


The night is merged into the day (for example, see 22:61). Hence, night starts at sunset. Therefore, the near part of the night (a="zulufan mina allayli") is between sunset (the beginning of night) and the total darkness of the night (b="ghasaqi allayli").

Those two times (a) and (b) are not equivalent. (a) comes before (b).

the near part of the night = sunset----->the darkness of the night

Quote from: "marie"
I?d like to know the difference between (the near part of the night = wazulufan mina allayli in 11 :114)  and (the darkness of the night / the obscure part of the night = ghasaqi allayli in 17 :78 )


I hope that now the difference is clear from the answer to your question above. You can see that the propositions used before the two time periods are different. The "wa" (and) is used in 11:114 to designate a continous time period. While in 17:78 the "ila" (until) marks the end of a time period.

I hope this helps,

Ayman.

Wakas

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ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2003, 03:08:27 AM »
peace Marie, Ayman,

Just to add what I've got written in my notes...

Quote
And uphold the salata at the two (tarafay*) edges of daylight (annahaaru) and (wa**) adjacent/near/close parts (zulafun***) of the night (al-layli). The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember. [11:114]

*dual form used, i.e. 2. (singular = tarafun, plural = atraafun)
**can mean: including, also, together with.
***plural form used, i.e. more than 2. (singular = zulfa)


&

Quote
Uphold the salata at the rubbing (duluk) of the sun* (as-shams) until (ila) darkness (ghasaq) of the night (al-layl), and the reading (quran) at dawn (fajr). The reading (quran) at dawn (fajr) is witnessed (mashhoodan). [17:78]

* "sunset" is also an applicable translation.


The way I see it...

sunset (sun is fully past horizon) -----> early parts of the night (twilight + early night) (zulufan mina allayli) -----> darkness of the night (ghasaqi allayli)

Please note: 'zulufan' could include an early part of the darkness of the night, due to the plural (otherwise, I dont see how it would make sense). 17:78 clarifies and complements 11:114.


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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marie

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ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2003, 06:08:15 AM »
Peace brothers Ayman and Wakas,

Thanks for your help.

Wakas wrote:
Quote
sunset (sun is fully past horizon) -----> early parts of the night (twilight + early night) (zulufan mina allayli) -----> darkness of the night (ghasaqi allayli)

Please note: 'zulufan' could include an early part of the darkness of the night, due to the plural (otherwise, I dont see how it would make sense). 17:78 clarifies and complements 11:114.


I agree with you, zulufan mina allayli = sunset + early night i e when the darkness starts to cover the daylight.

I consider that the verse 11:114 is clear for these two time of the salat (fajr and 3isha)

I can't see why does God provide us an additional information only for the salat of the evening?

Why Does God indicate us the time for the evening salat in 11:114 whereas this information 'the near part of the night after the sun set' is incomplete ?

In this case, 17:78 would be enough to show us the time for the salat of the evening.

Correct me if I'm wrong, tarafay alnnahar means the sunrise (the begining) and the sunset (the end).

I think Dulook and taraf are not similar

I hope you understand my problem which is the change of the beginning and the end of the time for the evening salat between 11:114 and 17:78

Marie
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Wakas

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ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2003, 11:05:39 PM »
peace Marie,

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but I will try to clarify...

In 11:114, 'zulafun' is plural (i.e. three or more near/close/adjacent parts of the night). Now, lets use the minimum criteria for plural usage (i.e. 3), this 3 adjacent parts are to be used for the 2 salat (i.e. fajr & isha).

One example...

The time-range of fajr-salat = one adjacent part of night (twilight) until full sunrise (i.e. sun is fully above horizon)

The number of near/close/adjacent parts of the night used for fajr-salat = one.

The time-range of isha-salat = from rubbing of the sun (i.e. part going below the horizon), including twilight (one adjacent part) AND early night (another adjacent part).

You see, whatever salat is, one may be so focused that one doesn't realise the time and you enter the early part of the night (this is after twilight) THUS the plural criteria (i.e. 3 near/close/adjacent parts have been used altogether for the 2 salat). One adjacent part for fajr and two for isha, giving three.

Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, tarafay alnnahar means the sunrise (the begining) and the sunset (the end).


As far as I know, taraf = extremity, edge, lateral/adjacent/outward part, side, border ,end, newly acquired. Used in verse 11:114, it does not specifically mean sunrise and sunset. It just means the edges (two) of daytime/daylight. The 'edges' need clarified, hence 17:78.

So, as you can see, 17:78 AND 11:114 are needed together for clarification and to confirm a time-range.

I hope thats helped...


Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

marie

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ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2003, 12:28:55 PM »
Peace brother Wakas,

Now I see more clearly, thank you very much  :D

The word zulufan is the key for my problem of comprehension.

Currently , I have the possibility to read the quran at dawn (fajr), during the daylight, at the evening (3isha) and during the night, I think I will continue in this way GW. If my work for example does not enable me to do it as many time, I will do it at least twice per day (fajr and 3isha)

Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds.

Marie

PS: I hope that you do not suffer too much to decipher my English posts  :oops:
And He is the God, there is no god but He.
http://hanif.free.fr/

Wakas

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ghasaq / darkness ~ the near part of the night ?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2003, 01:58:34 PM »
peace sister Marie, all,

Quote from: "marie"

The word zulufan is the key for my problem of comprehension.


I thought it might be. I was also perplexed by it for a while.

Quote from: "marie"

PS: I hope that you do not suffer too much to decipher my English posts  :oops:


Not really. If I feel I can help, I'll try.

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Chapter 80

1. He frowned and turned away.
2. That the blind one came to him.
3. And what makes you know, perhaps he is seeking to purify/better/correct?
4. Or to remember, so the remembrance will benefit him?
5. As for the one who was content.
6. You were addressing yourself to him.
7. And why does it concern you that he does not want to purify?
8. And as for the one who came to you seeking.
9. While he was fearful.
10. You were too pre-occupied for him.

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Wakas
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org