Author Topic: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)  (Read 8915 times)

Edip Yuksel

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Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« on: May 10, 2008, 09:34:22 PM »
I noticed a thread discussing Fazlur Rahman's take on polygamy. I thought it would be useful to share our translations of related verses and my comments in Quran: a Reformist Translation (QRT):

4:1 O people, be aware of your Lord who has created you from one person and He created from it its mate and sent forth from both many men and women; and be aware of God whom you ask about, and the relatives. God is watcher over you.*

 يايها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذى خلقكم من نفس وحدة وخلق منها زوجها وبث منهما رجالا كثيرا ونساء واتقوا الله الذى تساءلون به والارحام ان الله كان عليكم رقيبا

4:2 Give the orphans their money; do not replace the good with the bad, and do not consume their money to your money, for truly it is a great sin.*

 وءاتوا اليتمى امولهم ولا تتبدلوا الخبيث بالطيب ولا تاكلوا امولهم الى امولكم انه كان حوبا كبيرا

4:3 If you fear that you cannot be just to fatherless orphans, then marry those whom you see fit from the women, two, and three, and four. But if you fear you will not be fair then only one, or whom you already have contract with. So that you do not commit injustice and suffer hardship.*

 وان خفتم الا تقسطوا فى اليتمى فانكحوا ما طاب لكم من النساء مثنى وثلث وربع فان خفتم الا تعدلوا فوحدة او ما ملكت ايمنكم ذلك ادنى الا تعولوا

4:127 They ask you for divine instruction concerning women. Say, "God instructs you regarding them, as has been recited for you in the book about the rights of orphans whose mothers you want to marry without giving them their legal rights. You shall observe the rights of powerless children, and your duty to treat orphans with equity. Whatever good you do, God has full knowledge of it.*

ويستفتونك فى النساء قل الله يفتيكم فيهن وما يتلى عليكم فى الكتب فى يتمى النساء التى لا توتونهن ما كتب لهن وترغبون ان تنكحوهن والمستضعفين من الولدن وان تقوموا لليتمى بالقسط وما تفعلوا من خير فان الله كان به عليما

ENDNOTES:

004:001 Male and female, with little difference, share the same genetic program. The creation of the female from Adam's ribs found in Genesis 2:21-22 does not fit the Quranic description of creation. There is most likely a misunderstanding or deliberate distortion of an original word. On the Biblical account of the creation of Eve, the commentator Matthew Henry makes a beautiful comment, which might give us insight into the original meaning of the text: "This companion was taken from his side to signify that she was to be dear unto him as his own flesh. Not from his head, lest she should rule over him; nor from his feet, lest he should tyrannize over her; but from his side, to denote that species of equality which is to subsist in the marriage state." Ironically, many misogynistic Christian scholars interpreted the Biblical account of Eve's creation to belittle and condemn women. For instance, the 19th century Scottish Presbyterian scholar Easton provides the following information on the verse: "Through the subtle temptation of the serpent she violated the commandment of God by taking of the forbidden fruit, which she gave also unto her husband (1Timothy 2:13-15; 2Corinthians 11:3). When she gave birth to her first son, she said, "I have gotten a man from the Lord" (R.V., "I have gotten a man with the help of the Lord," Genesis 4:1). Thus she welcomed Cain, as some think, as if he had been the Promised One the 'Seed of the woman.'" See 2:36; 49:13.

004:003 Polygamy is allowed only to provide psychological, social and economic support for widows with orphans (See 4:127). Muhammad's practice of polygamy must have been in accordance with the condition to serve an important social service. Sure, physical attraction of widows might be one of the factors for marriage and there is nothing wrong with that. Those who could afford practicing polygamy, mentally and financially, should try hard to treat them equally, though 4:129 expresses the practical impossibly of attaining that ideal. Additionally, the consent of the first wife is necessary; otherwise, she can always seek divorce. It is clear that polygamy is not an ideal form of marriage and an unusual practice allowed for difficult times, such as a dramatic reduction in the male population during wartime. The age gap between marrying men and women creates a surplus of women who will never be able to find a monogamous partner. By a strict prohibition on polygamy, millions of young women are deprived from having a legitimate relationship with men. The only hope for millions of young girls is to get married with already divorced men, perhaps with kids, or to have a relationship born out of promiscuous sexual practices. The Western world does not prohibit polygamy since many males have sexual relationships with more than one woman at the same time. The only thing that modern societies do is deprive those women from the protection of law; they are there to be used, disposed of and recycled by men! The hypocrisy in the modern attitude becomes clear when homosexuality is defended on the pretext of "consenting adults," but the same standards are not afforded to the polygamists. The conditional permission for polygamy is for the psychological and financial protection of children and their widow mothers, in cases of war or natural disaster. Polygamy, according to the Old Testament, started with the seventh generation after Cain and continued as a common practice in the patriarchal age together with having concubines (Genesis 4:19; 6:2; 16:1-4; 22:21-24; 28:8-9; 29:23-30, etc.). However, the Old Testament also disapproves of polygamy (Deuteronomy 17:17). The Old Testament contains numerous exaggerated stories. One is about the number of Solomon's wives. The roundness of the numbers of wives and concubines and their total, the three numbers being perfectly round, indicate an intentional exaggeration. "And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart??? (1 Kings 11:3). It is highly plausible that the word "hundred" was inserted in the text by later scribes to damage the reputation of Solomon for some political agenda. The following verses depict Solomon as an evil person and idolater. The Quran neither accuses Solomon of indulging in a hedonistic sexual life nor of associating partners with God. Ironically, modern Christians are now bashing Solomon for not sticking to monogamy. To be politically correct, modern Christians do not hesitate to condemn the common practice of polygamy among Jews and their prophets. Contrary to the Quran, which exhorts muslims to help widows, the misogynistic Rabbinical teachings inserted into the Old Testament put them in the category of harlots, and finds them unworthy of marriage by the privileged class: priests (Leviticus 21:14). The expression Ma malakat aymanukum has been translated by most translations as "whom your right hands posses" or "captives" or "concubines." We translated this and similar expressions found in 4:3,24,25,36; 16:71; 23:6; 24:31,33,58; 30:28; 33:50,52,55; and 70:30, as "those with whom you have contractual rights." These were the wives of the enemy combatants who were persecuted because they acknowledged the message of Islam and sought asylum at the Muslim community (60:10). Since they did not get through a normal divorce process, an exceptional contract allows them to marry muslims as free women. Marrying them could create some social, economic and personal complications for the husband. They have nothing to do with IBaD (slaves), as sectarian translations and commentaries state. As we will learn, the Quran categorically rejects slavery and considers it to be the greatest sin (See 3:79; 4:25,92; 5:89; 8:67; 24:32-33; 58:3; 90:13; 2:286; 12:39-42; 79:24). The practice of slavery was justified and resurrected to a certain extent via the influence of Jewish and Christian scholars, as well as fabricated hadith and sharia laws, decades after Muhammad's departure. It is ironic that Jews who suffered the most from slavery and were saved by God through the leadership of Moses (Exodus 1:13-14), later justified enslaving other people, including selling one's own daughter, and inserted that practice into their holy books (Exodus 21:7-8; 21:21-22; 26-27; Leviticus 25:44-46; Joshua 9:6-27). Though Jesus never condoned slavery, St. Paul, the founder of modern Christianity, once asked the masters to treat their slaves nicely (Colossians 3:22), and asked the slaves to be "submissive to your masters with all fear" (1 Peter 2:18; Ephesians 6:5; 1 Timothy 6:2; Colossians 3:22; Titus 2:9) justifying the Marxist maxim, "Religion is the opium of masses." The use of religion by the privileged class to enslave or exploit people is vividly depicted by the South African archbishop Desmond Tutu: "When the missionaries came to Africa, they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'let us close our eyes and pray'. When we opened them, we had the Bible, and they had the land." The word YaMYN means "right hand" or metaphorically "right," "power" or "control." However, its plural form aYMaN is consistently mentioned in the Quran to mean not "right hands" but to mean "oaths" or "promises," implying the mutual nature of the relationship (See 4:33 5:89; 9:12; 16:91- 94; 2:224-225; 30:28; 66:2; 5:53; 6:109). This unique Quranic usage is similar to the semantic difference between the singular and plural forms of the word Ayat (signs) (see 2:106). The expression in question, thus could be translated as "those whom your oaths/contracts have rights over" or "those whom you hold rights through your contracts," or by reading aYMaN (oaths/contracts) as an object rather than a subject, "those who hold/possess your contracts." The marriage declaration is a mutual partnership between two sexes and is formed by participation of family members. A married woman cannot marry another man without getting divorced from her husband. However, if a woman escapes and joins muslims while her husband stayed behind participating in a war against muslims, she may marry a Muslim man without actually getting divorced from her combatant husband; she will legally be considered a divorcee (60:10). Since this contract is different from the normal marriage contract, this special relationship is described in different words. The same is valid for a man whose wife allies with the hostile enemy. See 24:31 and 33:55. Those who work for another person according to employment contracts are also referred to with the same expression. See 16:71; 30:28. Also, see 4:25,36; 23:6; 24:58; 33:50; 33:52; 70:30. The Quran does not demand those who lived together based on a mutual promise (AYMaN) during the days of ignorance, without a marriage contract, to get divorced. Similarly, it does not want those who married two sisters before accepting islam to be a way of life (4:23). This tolerance does not encourage living together without marriage. It only does not want to incur further damage to the family structure and does not want to create hurdles for those who wish to live according to the principles of islam.

004:127 This verse has been commonly mistranslated to justify marrying young orphan girls rather than marrying their widow mothers. The mistranslation is so obvious, that it is curious how those who had knowledge of Arabic did not notice it. Unfortunately, this mistranslation helped the justification of marrying girls at a very young age. Though the Quran permits polygamy to men (4:3), it strictly discourages its actual practice by requiring certain significant preconditions: men may marry more than one wife only if the later ones are widows with children, and they should treat each wife equally and fairly (See 4:19-20; 127-129.) Unfortunately, verse 4:127 has been traditionally misinterpreted and mistranslated in such a way as to suggest that God permits marriage with juvenile orphans. This is clearly not the case. The Arabic expression yatam al-nisa illati in 4:127 has been routinely mistranslated as "women orphans, whom..." The expression is also sometimes translated as "orphans of women whom..." This later translation, though accurate, makes the crucial reference of the objective pronoun "whom" ambiguous: Does the phrase after "whom" describe orphans or women? As it happens, the Arabic plural pronoun in this verse is the female form, allaty (not the male form allazyna), and it can only refer to the women just referenced, not to the orphans. This is because the Arabic word yatama (orphans) is grammatically male in gender! All the English translations of the Quran that we have seen have mistranslated this passage. This is remarkable, because the correct translation requires only an elementary knowledge of Arabic grammar. This error is thus much more than a simple grammatical slip; it is, we would argue, willful misrepresentation. The traditional interpretation of this passage offers an apparent justification for marriage with children, which flatly contradicts the Quran. Like so many passages in the Quran, 4:127's meaning was severely distorted in order to gain the favor of rich, dominant males. Over the centuries, male scholars with active libidos have used fabricated hadith to pervert the meaning of this and other Quranic verses relating to marriage and sexuality (See 66:5). For a comparative discussion on verse 4:127, see the Sample Comparisons section in the Introduction.
Edip Yuksel, J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
Each of us must use our own mind in pursuit of knowledge. (17:36; 10:100; 39:17-18; 41:53; 42:21; 6:114-116; 10:36; 12:111; 20:114; 21:7; 35:28; 38:29).

Bigmo

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2008, 07:13:20 AM »
Your claim about the Bible and its distortions however contradicts the koran. The koran says the opposite. Maybe how we humans understand scriptures is not how the Koran understands it. However the Koran came to confirm the scriptures and not to claim its been distorted or corrupted as many Koranist continue to claim never providing a shred of evidence for their claim form the koran and never giving a valid explanation as to why the koran says the exact opposite of that claim. They will bring about verses from the Bible about the prophets and say this has to be a lie as if the author of the Koran does not know about them. But then they never answer why the koran itslef refutes the claim they propagate. This is part of the simplistic nature many read the Koran often trying to deflect problematic or seemingly contradictory nature of their thought. Maybe what the koran sees in the scriptures are different from how we see it. Whoevers says the Bible has been tampered with or corrupted needs first to answer to the koran. No book on Earth defends the Bible like the koran and yet the supposed followers of the Koran who go by the names "Muslims" are its biggest attackers. How odd!

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe

Edip Yuksel

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Re: Verses on the Bible and excerpts from the RTQ
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2008, 08:48:20 PM »
Maybe what the koran sees in the scriptures are different from how we see it. Whoevers says the Bible has been tampered with or corrupted needs first to answer to the koran. No book on Earth defends the Bible like the koran and yet the supposed followers of the Koran who go by the names "Muslims" are its biggest attackers. How odd!

Selected Excerpts from the QRT regarding the Bible. Verses followed by the endnotes. Endnotes starts with six digitis

2:59   But the wicked altered what was said to them into a different saying, thus We sent down upon the wicked an affliction from the sky because they had transgressed.*

002:059   Today's Bible contains fragments from the books of prophets. Ezra is one of the Jewish Rabbis who changed the words of the Torah. The Pharisee-son-of-a-Pharisee Saul (Paul) and his followers radically distorted the message of Jesus. While Rabbis added Talmudic teachings, equivalent to Hadith and Sunna, into the Old Testament, Paul added his letters and polytheistic doctrines borrowed from pagans, to lure gentiles. Using God's scientific signs in nature and the revelation of the Quran, or using the methodology of Modern Textual Criticism we may be able to detect many of the distortions and additions in the Old and New Testament. For instance, the following verses do not appear to be from a Benevolent and Wise God: Genesis 3:6-16; Exodus 21:7-8; 21-22; 22:18-19; 26-27; Leviticus 12:2-4; 13:6-11; 17:5; 24:13-16; 25:44-46; 34:5-10; Numbers 15:32-36; 31:1-18; Leviticus 20:1-27; 21:14; 21:16-23; 24:13-23; 25:11-12; Deuteronomy 11:25; 12:1-3; 13:5-10; 17:2-7; 20:16-17; 22:23-24; 22:28-30; 25:11-12; Joshua 6:21; 9:6-27; Judges 1:4-12; 3:22,29; Judges 14:18; 15:15-16; 16:1-20; 1 Samuel 15:3; 1 Samuel 18:27; 2 Samuel 3:14; 2 Kings 2:23-24; 2 Chronicles 15:13; 36:17; Psalms 58:10-11; 78:52; 119:176; 137:9;149:6-9; Isaiah 13:13-16; Isaiah 20:1-3; 44:28: 56:11; Jeremiah 6:3; 10:10; 12:1-3; 13:13-15; 16:4; 23:4; 48:10; 49:19, 50:6; 51:10-24; Ezekiel 9:5-6; 23:25; 34:2-10; Zephaniah 3:8; Zechariah 10:2; Matthew 5:17-19, 29-30; Matthew 10:34;19:12; 21:19; John 15:6; 10:14; 1 Corinthians 9:7; 11:6-9; 14:34; Ephesians 6:5; Colossians 3:22; I Timothy 2:11-15; 1 Timothy 6:2; Titus 2:9; Hebrews 13:20; 1 Peter 2:13-14; 1 Peter 2:18.

See 2:79; 5:13-15, 41-44; 9:30-31. Also, see 3:45, 51-52-52, 55; 4:11,157,171; 5:72-79; 6:83-90; 19:36.

5:44   We have sent down the Torah, in it is guidance and a light; the prophets who have peacefully surrendered judged with it for those who are Jews, as well as the Rabbis, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of God's book, and they were witness over it. So do not revere the people but revere Me; and do not purchase with My signs a cheap price. Whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the ingrates.*

005:044 The Torah is known as the name of the book given to Moses. However, this common knowledge might be wrong. The Quran nowhere mentions that the Torah was given to Moses. The word Torah occurs 18 times in the Quran and it refers to the collection of books given to Jewish prophets excluding the Injeel delivered by Jesus. Though the name of the book(s) given to Moses is not mentioned, it is described with various adjectives such as Furqan (the distinguisher), Emam (the leader), Rahma (mercy), Noor (light) and Huda (guidance).

There is ample scholarly work indicating that current books of the Old Testament were extensively tampered with and written by Ezra and other rabbis. See 2:59; 2:79; 9:30-31. Also, see the Old Testament, Jeremiah 8:8.

5:45   We have decreed for them in it that a life for a life, and an eye for an eye, and a nose for a nose, and an ear for an ear, and a tooth for a tooth, and wounds to be similar; and whoever remits anything of it, then it will cancel sins for him. Whoever does not judge by what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.*

005:045 Compare it to Exodus 21:24-36. Though the Old Testament version contains many more instructions, it does not mention the Quranic version reminding the Children of Israel that remission or giving up the punishment is a better choice. The Quranic version of the Old Testament rule is the Golden-plated Brazen rule, or "Generous tit-for-tat" which is the most effective moral rule in the real world. See 9:2-29. Also see 8:61; 4:90; 41:34.

5:48   We have sent down to you the book with truth, authenticating what is present of the book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, a structure. Had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you, so advance the good deeds. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.*
5:49   You should rule among them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins. Indeed, many among the people are corrupt.
5:50 Is it the judgment of the days of ignorance that they seek? Who is better than God as a judge for a people that comprehend?


005:048-50 Prophet Muhammad was not judging among people according to divine instructions besides the Quran. The Quran was the only divine authority. However, decades after Muhammad, those who turned away from the Quran turned Muhammad himself into a competing, supplementing, or contradicting authority through hadith collections and thereby regressed to the days of ignorance. The system belongs to God alone. Muhammad's sole mission was to deliver God's system to humanity. See 6:19, 112-116.

5:51   O you who acknowledge, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as allies, for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from amongst you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people.*
5:52   You will see those who have a disease in their hearts hurrying to them, saying, "We fear that a disaster will befall us!" Perhaps God will bring a victory or a decree from Himself, then they will become regretful over what they had kept hidden within themselves.
5:53   Those who acknowledge said, "Were these the ones who swore oaths by God that they were with you?" Their works have collapsed, and they have become losers.
5:54   O you who acknowledge, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; humble towards those who acknowledge, dignified towards the ingrates; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear the blame of those who blame. This is God's grace, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.
5:55   Your ally is God, His messenger and those who acknowledge, who hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards betterment, and they are kneeling.
5:56   Whoever allies God, His messenger and those who acknowledge; then the party of God is the ones who will be victorious.
5:57   O you who acknowledge, do not take as allies those who have taken your system as fun and games from among those who have been given the book before you and the ingrates. Be aware of God if you are those who acknowledge.


005:051-57 Verse 5:57 provides the characteristics of the people of the book, whom we are instructed not to ally ourselves with. Muslims should not ally themselves with those who insult their values or promote hatred against them. Obviously, this instruction is in the context of religious conflict; not in the context of social, personal, or financial relationship. There are righteous people among the people of the book (3:113; 3:199: 5:69). Eating their food or marriage with them is permitted (5:5). Verses 5:57 and 60:7-9 are among the verses that provide us with basic principles in dealing with others.

Many Modern Christians are Not the Followers of Jesus, the Messiah
5:72   Ingrates indeed are those who have said, "God is the Messiah son of Mary!" Although the Messiah had said, "O Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever sets up partners with God, then God will forbid paradise for him, and his destiny will be the fire; and the wicked will have no supporters."*
5:73   Ingrates indeed are those who have said, "God is the third of trinity!" There is no god but One god. If they do not cease from what they are saying, then those who reject from among them will be afflicted with a painful retribution.
5:74   Would they not repent to God and seek His forgiveness? God is Forgiving, Compassionate.
5:75   The Messiah son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; like the messengers before him. His mother was trustworthy, and they used to eat the food. See how We clarify the signs for them, then see how they deviate.
5:76   Say, "Do you serve other than God what cannot harm you or benefit you?" God is the Hearer, the Knower.
5:77   Say, "O followers of the book, do not overstep in your system other than the truth, and do not follow the desires of a people who have been misguided before, and they misguide many; and they strayed from the right path."


005:072-76 Despite the Pauline Church's polytheistic teaching that transformed ONE God into a fictional Triune god with contradictory multiple personalities, the Gospels are filled with verses rejecting the deity of Jesus. See John 7:16,28-29; 5:30; 14:28; 12:44-50; 20:127; Mark 10:17-18; 12:29; Matthew 7:21. One of the chapters in 19 Questions for Christians is dedicated to the discussion of the few Biblical verses abused to promote polytheism. See 4:171. Also, see 2:59; 3:45,51-52,55; 4:11,157; 7:162; 19:36.

5:78   Cursed are those who have rejected from among the Children of Israel by the tongue of David and Jesus son of Mary. That is for what they have disobeyed, and for what they transgressed.*

005:078 The following Biblical verses where David and Jesus condemn the unappreciative people among the Children of Israel fit the Quranic reference: Psalms 109; Matthew 16:11-12; 23:1-39; Luke 12:1-2.

Quote
13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. 23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices?mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law?justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. 25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. 27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness. 29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers! 33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? (Matthew 23:13-33).

To learn the identity of a "Pharisee" and a "hypocrite" who turned the above Biblical condemnation into a prophecy, see the New Testament, Acts 23:6; 1. Corinthians 9:20-22; Acts 15:36-41; Galatians 2:11-14; 4:10-14; Galatians 3:13 & Deuteronomy 21:23. See the Quran 2:59; 3:45,51-52,55; 4:11,157,171; 5:72-79; 7:162; 19:36.

5:82   You will find the people with greatest animosity towards those who acknowledge are the Jews and those who set up partners; and you will find the closest in affection to those who acknowledge are those who said, "We are Nazarenes;" that is because amongst them are Priests and Monks, and they are not arrogant.*

005:082 The word Masihiy (Christian) is not used in the Quran. The Quran refers to the supporters of Jesus with the Arabic word, Nasara, literally meaning "supporters" (2:62,111,113,120,135,140; 5:14,18,51,69,82; 9:30; 22:17). When Jesus asked them who would be his supporters in the cause of God, his disciples answered, "We are supporters of God" (3:52; 61:14). It is interesting that Jesus was called Jesus the Nazarene in the Bible, from the name of the town of Nasara. The name of the town Nasara (supporters) perhaps comes from what Jesus? disciples called themselves. Ironically, the name of the son of Mary was not Jesus either. Christianity, as the product of the Pharisee-son-of-a-Pharisee is a polytheistic religion with a fabricated name and falsely attributed to a fabricated idol (See 3:45 and 2:62).

When we read this verse within context, starting from verse 5:77, it becomes clear that the Jews referred to in verse 5:82 are not all Jews, but those who are considered unappreciative of God's blessings and message.

6:90   These are the ones guided by God; so let their guidance be an example. Say, "I do not ask you for a wage; this is but a reminder for the worlds."

006:083-90 In these verses, 18 names of prophets are mentioned and they are praised by God. Though the Quran refers to some of their errors and weaknesses, and underscores their human nature, they are depicted as role models. Nevertheless, through using their intellect and determination, we are informed that they worked hard to avoid temptations, sins, and injustices. The Old Testament, which was extensively distorted by Ezra and numerous Rabbis, contains many wicked and despicable acts, some of which should have been x-rated, to these role models. The New Testament's hero, however, is treated to the contrary; he is transformed into a human-god, into an oxymoron, or more accurately into a logical contradiction. Evangelicals try to defend those shameful stories as a merit, as a sign of a realistic account of the Old Testament. Knowing that numerous disgraceful and wicked stories were falsely attributed to Muhammad to justify the actions of corrupt and oppressive rulers who came after him, we are justified in speculating that the real motive behind the x-rated and v-rated Biblical stories was most likely to reduce the guilt from the fabricators of the stories who themselves either committed or contemplated similar acts of sexual abuse and violence, or to reduce the guilt of their criminal friends and rulers. Indeed, this is a cynical view, and the Bible contains more than enough reasons to be cynical. For instance, according to the Old Testament, Lot had incest with his daughters while he was drunk (Genesis 19:30-38); Judah too committed incest (Genesis 38:15-30); David tempted and committed adultery with someone else's wife and had her husband killed (2 Samuel 11:1-27); David's son rapes his sister Tamar, causing interfamily conflict. (2 Samuel 13:1-34). See the Quran 2:59.

41:9   Say, "You are rejecting the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up equals with Him. This is the Lord of the worlds."*

041:009-10 Each "day" of creation represents a period of time. According to the Quran, time is relative (32:5; 70:4). While the creation of earth took two units of time, the creation and evolution of all conditions for and stages of life took four units. This temporal comparison highlights the importance of the ecological system on planet earth. The conjunction between fragments in this verse is Wa (and), thus implying not a sequence of separate events, but overlapping series of events. See 7:69; 25:59; 32:4; 50:38; 57:4.

Though the Bible contains some of the original revelations, Ezra and other Jewish scholars inserted into it many of their misunderstandings, comments, desires and ignorance (2:59). The Biblical account of the creation of the universe does not match scientific evidence. For instance, Genesis 1:1-2 informs us that the first stage of the universe started with the creation of water. Another example of external inconsistency is the creation of plants on earth before the creation of the sun (Genesis 1:11-14).

The order of creation in the Bible is given in detail in its first book, which partially contradicts modern scientific findings: First day, light and darkness (Genesis 1:3-5), Second day, atmosphere, and waters (Genesis 1:6-8), Third day, land and making it fruitful (Genesis 1:9-13), Fourth day, sun, moon, and stars (Genesis 1:14-19), Fifth day, birds, insects, and fishes (Genesis 1:20-23), Sixth day, land animals, and man (Genesis 1:24,28).
The Bible also contains internal inconsistencies. For instance, a comparative reading of chapter 1 and chapter 2 of Genesis will show that, most likely, the two chapters were authored by at least two different people who had different ideas about how the universe was created. Only through scientific evidence, which supports the Quranic version of creation, can we sort out the discrepancies in the Bible. Trees were created before man was (Genesis 1:11-12,26-27) versus man was created before trees were (Genesis 2:4-9). Birds were created before man was (Genesis 1:11-12, 26-27) versus man was created before birds were (Genesis 2:7,19). Animals were created before man was (Genesis 1:24-27) versus man was created before animals were (Genesis 2:7,19).

Peace,
Edip
Edip Yuksel, J.D.
www.yuksel.org
www.19.org
Each of us must use our own mind in pursuit of knowledge. (17:36; 10:100; 39:17-18; 41:53; 42:21; 6:114-116; 10:36; 12:111; 20:114; 21:7; 35:28; 38:29).

Arnab

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2008, 09:03:29 PM »
Salam Edip,

The Tanakh, and the Gospels in the original languages have not been tampered with or changed.
The Dead Sea Scrolls is good evidence of this.

However, I have found that pointing this out does little to change the minds of those who believe that they have changed.
It seems preposterous to me that the Quran would
first instruct us to follow that which was revealed before us
and then tell us that if we do it has been altered and would be a misguidance.

I do not expect a debate on this issue to be a productive one, I am merely stating my view.

Salam,
Arnab

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2008, 04:05:12 AM »
Salam Edip,

The Tanakh, and the Gospels in the original languages have not been tampered with or changed.
The Dead Sea Scrolls is good evidence of this.

However, I have found that pointing this out does little to change the minds of those who believe that they have changed.
It seems preposterous to me that the Quran would
first instruct us to follow that which was revealed before us
and then tell us that if we do it has been altered and would be a misguidance.

I do not expect a debate on this issue to be a productive one, I am merely stating my view.

Salam,
Arnab

I'd be interested to read your take on the original gospel and tanakh and how it hasn't been tampered or changed.

Let me know if you do make a separate topic on this.

PEACE
A book is only as good as it?s reader. Once opened symbols present themselves for the reader to decipher. We learn and relearn new conceptual models to comprehend these symbols. A book is only a tool.

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2008, 08:26:11 AM »
Salam Edip,

The Tanakh, and the Gospels in the original languages have not been tampered with or changed.
The Dead Sea Scrolls is good evidence of this.

However, I have found that pointing this out does little to change the minds of those who believe that they have changed.
It seems preposterous to me that the Quran would
first instruct us to follow that which was revealed before us
and then tell us that if we do it has been altered and would be a misguidance.

I do not expect a debate on this issue to be a productive one, I am merely stating my view.

Salam,
Arnab

I have no clue either why this persistence. Its as if they know the bible better than the Koran does or as if the Bible at the time of Muhammad in Arabia was any different than the Bible today. Edip also quotes Koranic verse in the absence of others.


Say: "O People of the Book! Ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord, If only they had stood fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that was sent to them from their Lord, they would have enjoyed happiness from every side. There is from among them a party on the right course: But many of them follow a course that is evil. (5,68-69)

Let the People of the Gospel judge by what God hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel. (5,47)

But why do they come to thee for decision, when they have (their own) Law before them?- Therein is the (plain) command of God; yet even after that, they would turn away. For they are not (really) people of faith. (Surah 5, Maida, verse 43)

5.44. It was We who revealed the law (to Moses): therein was guidance and light. By its standard have been judged the Jews, by the prophets who bowed (as in Islam) to God's will, by the rabbis and the doctors of law: for to them was entrusted the protection of God's book, and they were witnesses thereto: therefore fear not men, but fear me, and sell not my signs for a miserable price. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (no better than) Unbelievers.

5.45. We ordained therein for them: "Life for life, eye for eye, nose or nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth, and wounds equal for equal." But if any one remits the retaliation by way of charity, it is an act of atonement for himself. And if any fail to judge by (the light of) what God hath revealed, they are (No better than) wrong-doers.

5.46. And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God.

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; Surah 5 Verse 48


All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel made unlawful for itself, before the Law (of Moses) was revealed. Say,"Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth." (Surah 3, Al-i-'Imran, verse 93)

And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that) was before thee... (Surah 10, Jonah, verse 94)


88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2008, 06:19:55 PM »
Salam Edip,

The Tanakh, and the Gospels in the original languages have not been tampered with or changed.
The Dead Sea Scrolls is good evidence of this.

However, I have found that pointing this out does little to change the minds of those who believe that they have changed.
It seems preposterous to me that the Quran would
first instruct us to follow that which was revealed before us
and then tell us that if we do it has been altered and would be a misguidance.

I do not expect a debate on this issue to be a productive one, I am merely stating my view.

Salam,
Arnab
Your claim about the Bible and its distortions however contradicts the koran. The koran says the opposite. Maybe how we humans understand scriptures is not how the Koran understands it. However the Koran came to confirm the scriptures and not to claim its been distorted or corrupted as many Koranist continue to claim never providing a shred of evidence for their claim form the koran and never giving a valid explanation as to why the koran says the exact opposite of that claim. They will bring about verses from the Bible about the prophets and say this has to be a lie as if the author of the Koran does not know about them. But then they never answer why the koran itslef refutes the claim they propagate. This is part of the simplistic nature many read the Koran often trying to deflect problematic or seemingly contradictory nature of their thought. Maybe what the koran sees in the scriptures are different from how we see it. Whoevers says the Bible has been tampered with or corrupted needs first to answer to the koran. No book on Earth defends the Bible like the koran and yet the supposed followers of the Koran who go by the names "Muslims" are its biggest attackers. How odd!



Peace
I agree with you, simply because the Quran agrees with you.
I would like to add that God knowledge of what happens in his Kingdom is behind our imagination; God, when revealing the Quran to Prophet Mohamed (PBUH), had knowledge of what happened in the past to the Torah and the Gospel; so, if all the verses that Edip mentioned regarding the Jews who changed God words were to mean they tampered the book, I think God would have said to prophet Mohamed to advice us (by the Quran and not Hadith) to not Believe in the Torah! In the contrary, God ordered the Prophet to read it and believe in it as the Truth from his Lord. Moreover, God Knowledge, when he was revealing the Quran, were behind that time, God knew what will happened in the future, even until the day we will enter Heaven or Hellfire; so, if God knew that the Original Bible and the Torah would be tampered with, he would have warned us to disbelieve them (in the Quran) instead of telling us to believe in them. The only effective way to judge the Torah and the Gospel is to know it?s original language (Aramaic, Hebrew.), and then judge the Original and not the ones that being translated. 

Peace

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2008, 07:42:21 PM »
Peace Edip, all.

According to Lane, "Ankaha" vb (IV) as in Q28:27 means "marry off", (He married the woman; i.e give her in marriage).  applying the same principal in Q4:3, it tells us to marry off the orphan under our care once they are matured/independent, hence enable us to surrender back what is rightfully belongs to the orphan, i.e the inheritance.   Q4:2-6 theme is all about, guardian > orphan > matured > marry off > give back their property/inheritance.

Hence, Q4:2-6 is not about polygamy.

BTW, my 2 cents on Q2:221 to disprove the polygamy:

Transliteration
Wala tankihoo almushrikati hatta yu/minna walaamatun mu/minatun khayrun min mushrikatin walaw aAAjabatkum wala tunkihoo almushrikeena hatta yu/minoo walaAAabdun mu/minun khayrun min mushrikin walaw aAAjabakum ola-ika yadAAoona ila alnnari waAllahu yadAAoo ila aljannati waalmaghfirati bi-ithnihi wayubayyinu ayatihi lilnnasi laAAallahum yatathakkaroona

almushrikati here means those who have partner, i.e married
yu/minna in the context of marriage (since this is subject being address) means LOYAL

Hence, man should marry single woman and vice versa.

Salam

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2008, 10:15:52 PM »
Salaam phil, all

Quote
According to Lane, "Ankaha انكح" vb (IV) as in Q28:27 means "marry off",

I agree with this. However, there's another verb "nakaha نكح" which means to marry. Both verbs have the same imperative: Ankihu انكحوا, the one used in his verse (vocalisation not withstanding). So, based on the verb, we cannot decide which one is being used.

So, let's go to the logic: Why marrying off the orphans after they were given their property when they proved to be mature? They can marry themselves like any other adult, and are no more considered "orphans/vulnerable". How would "marrying them off" alleviate injustice?

Secondly, what's the meaning of "if you fear not being just, then only one"?

Quote
Wala tankihoo almushrikati hatta yu/minna walaamatun mu/minatun khayrun min mushrikatin walaw aAAjabatkum wala tunkihoo almushrikeena hatta yu/minoo walaAAabdun mu/minun khayrun min mushrikin walaw aAAjabakum ola-ika yadAAoona ila alnnari waAllahu yadAAoo ila aljannati waalmaghfirati bi-ithnihi wayubayyinu ayatihi lilnnasi laAAallahum yatathakkaroona


This verse has both verbs (marry and marry off respectively, in bold). Notice that the (marry off) in Arabic is followed by the masculine, not the feminine. Actually it does not mean (marry off) as in English, but (marry to: marry a woman to a man)

And I expect when you made (mushrik means married) in this verse, then mu'min should be (single). If they become loyal, how can you marry them? Loyal to their partners, I suppose. If it is not to the patner, why is it advisable to marry them?

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Re: Polygamy according to the Quran (Excerpt from QRT)
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2008, 04:32:08 AM »
Salaam all

I was thinking lately of the word translated as "orphans". I think it should be "fatherless children" whether the child lost the father to death or because it was born ouside wedlock. The latter I believe are very vulnerable, and their vulnerability is continuous, no way out without the mother getting married again and thus their return to the society is more likely. They are the ones shunt and isolated by the society (107:2): yadu33u means push, and whose mothers can hardly get married to offer them a home and a name. A look at our Arabic societies (and maybe Muslim societies in general), although that "orphans" in general are in a dire condition, but also poor children in poor families, the "illegitmate" ones are ten folds more miserable, and usually their misery is applied by the society (laws) and people together.