Author Topic: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?  (Read 9104 times)

Wakas

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2007, 07:51:50 AM »
peace OPF,

I'm not sure what you mean, but I shall clarify what I meant by "sectarian act": an act which implies you belong to a sect, and in this case, a sect out with a 'quran based islam', i.e. an act that cannot be found in al quran.

If you or Layth are suggesting wearing a headscarf is a "sectarian act" (as defined above) I would like to see some evidence.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

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Layth

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2007, 11:12:29 PM »
Salam Nadeem,

Quote
Good post. Do you happen to recall the verse you are referring to? Couldn't find it.

`And God took the covenant of those who were given the Scripture: ?You will make it clear to the people and not conceal it.? But they threw it behind their backs and purchased with it a cheap price. Miserable indeed is what they have purchased.` (3:187)

`O people of the Scripture, why do you dress the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?` (3:71)


Hi Wakas,

Quote
If you or Layth are suggesting wearing a headscarf is a "sectarian act" (as defined above) I would like to see some evidence.

The person being discussed here `Maryam` lives in the US and preaches her anti-Iranian message there. A quick glance at her website shows all her pictures donning the sectarien Hijab. A scarf by definition is a peice of cloth worn infrequently and mostly as a protection from the cold.

What she is wearing is a Hijab, not a scarf.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Wakas

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2007, 03:50:35 AM »
peace Layth,

I know it is a headscarf, commonly known as a "hijab", but what I am trying to point out is the act of simply wearing one is NOT a sectarian act. Wearing a headscarf/khimar is one possible interp. in al quran.
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

Layth

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2007, 06:12:51 AM »
Salam Wakas,

Sorry, such interpretation is not even a possibility.

Women, like men, adhere to the practice of abulution in 5:6. Such practice includes the wiping of the head proving that no such interpretation of mandatory coverage is possible.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Nadeem

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2007, 06:38:20 AM »
Thanks for reference bro Layth!

.... about the hijab... the quran doesn't forbid any one to wear it either, does it?

Layth

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2007, 07:42:54 AM »
Salam Nadeem,

Quote
.... about the hijab... the quran doesn't forbid any one to wear it either, does it?

Absolutely. It is only a sectarian issue if a person thinks it is made mandatory by God.
`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

Nadeem

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2007, 07:55:41 AM »
Peace Layth.

I understand. I also understand that God has given a certain leeway when it comes to ones apparel, as the best garment is that of taqwa [7:26]. A person who sees the hijab as a part of their taqwa, surely they should wear it?

I agree, however, that attributing lies to God is unacceptable. [7:28]

Nadeem

Wakas

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2007, 02:35:34 PM »
peace Layth,

Thanks for the reply. I never said wearing of a headscarf was mandatory.

There are a few interesting issues which come to mind about this point:

Both 5:6 and 4:43 address men. We have assumed it has referred to both. Is this assumption valid?
It would be interesting to see if there were other examples in AQ similar to 5:6 and 4:43 in which it MUST refer to both but only addresses men. I have not researched this point.
AQ does say as-salat is for both men & women, e.g. 9:71
I am not aware of any regular/timed slw examples given in AQ involving women. I know bro mh or zlatan felt that the regular/timed slw command was only upon men. I never really researched this point but I cannot see any reason why this would be the case.
If there was a communal/group example of slw in AQ involving women, then that would disprove covering of the head as mandatory.
Has the word "khimaar" been used in any other sense in a Classical Arabic dictionary when referring to women other than a "headcover"?
All information in my posts is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should seek knowledge and verify: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11. My articles

www.studyQuran.org

tanveermd

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2007, 03:05:45 PM »
Peace bro Wakas, all,

The call to connection on the day of gathering in 62:9 starts with "yaa ayyuhallazeena aamanoo", which obviously includes both believing men and women, so women can congregate with men for salaat.

Similarly, 2:153 and 2:277 address both believing men and women.

As for the other points that have been brought up regarding "khimaar", they were covered in a recent heated discussion involving me at the following thread:

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14453.0

My participation started with reply #121 on page 9.

Two points:

1. "Khimaar" also covers the lower face in addition to head according to Lane's, when used in the sense of a head cover. Thus it would be a "head and lower face cover", and not just "head cover".

The full definition of "khimaar" according to Lane's Lexicon pertaining to "head cover":

Khimaar [A woman's muffler, or veil with which she covers her head and the lower part of her face, leaving exposed only the eyes and part or whole of the nose, such is the "khimaar" worn in the present day: a kind of veil which in Turkish is called Yashmaq]

2. Khumur is the plural of "khimaar" and "khimirr", both of which also mean "ANY COVERING of a thing" or "ANYTHING by which a thing is veiled, or covered" according to Lane's Lexicon (Book 1, page 809, also see under the root Kh-M-R in Project Root List, LL Volume 2, page 445)

Samia

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Re: Is Maryam from the NCRI/MEK a Quran only leader/Imam?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2007, 03:40:33 PM »
peace Layth,

There are a few interesting issues which come to mind about this point:

Both 5:6 and 4:43 address men. We have assumed it has referred to both. Is this assumption valid?
It would be interesting to see if there were other examples in AQ similar to 5:6 and 4:43 in which it MUST refer to both but only addresses men.


Salaam Wakas

In fact, the whole qur'aan is addressing both genders in the generic male form, except when it is addressing specific females (e.g wives of the prophet; mariam..). In other words, it addresses the generic male, exceptionally gendered male and gendered female.

However, I think I understand what you mean. Is verse 5:5; 62:9  something you are looking for?

Quote
Has the word "khimaar" been used in any other sense in a Classical Arabic dictionary when referring to women other than a "headcover"?

Men headcover.

Lisaanul3arab says under "khimaar":

For men: cover of the head; for women it is called "naSeef".

Looking up "naSeef":
It is said that it is the head cover, but the famous poet Annaabighal Thubiaani used it to mean something like a "sarong". Another linguist says it is an "overall", worn over all the woman's clothes.

It seems that lisaanul3arab does not have a clear cut meaning for "head cover for women", it just says "it is said that..". However, it is used in hadeeth literature as head cover for men (specifically mentioned in relation to the prophet) according to lisaanul3arab