Author Topic: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca  (Read 28624 times)

JSS

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #160 on: December 15, 2010, 09:01:27 PM »
I'm three and a half years too late it seems.  :(  Bummer!

What a loss...all those missing articles.

harris

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #161 on: December 17, 2010, 02:39:27 AM »
Salaam,
One simple question: If the Kaaba was indeed still at Jerusalem, why would the Prophet have changed the kiblah?
Such ideas only cause confusion and disputes among the believers (similar to wat has happened with the 3-salat theory).



In the end Allah knows best.
Bad boys, whatcha gonna do,
When THEY come for you?

Layth

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #162 on: December 17, 2010, 04:27:08 AM »
Salam,

Quote
One simple question: If the Kaaba was indeed still at Jerusalem, why would the Prophet have changed the kiblah?
Such ideas only cause confusion and disputes among the believers (similar to wat has happened with the 3-salat theory).

The prophet did not change of his own will, the Qibla change was done as a test  by God to distinguish the believers from the pretenders 2:142-143.

As for the confusion, that is normal so people make the effort of research rather than simply following.




`And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!` (The Quran 39:45)

JSS

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #163 on: December 17, 2010, 02:10:24 PM »
Quote
the Qibla change was done as a test  by God

It seems to me that this point is overlooked and is important.

@harris - Why, then, were Muslims praying toward a qibla located on or slightly south of the 32nd degree parallel in 705 CE?
Researching the matter brings answers.

Since the link to the article that expounds on the significance of the event is broken, one can find the article here:

 http://free-minds.org/moh

loxbox13

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #164 on: December 17, 2010, 10:19:16 PM »
Peace
You are so funny,
what you are accusing me is exactly what you are doing yourself.
There is no need for proof, the Quran stands for itself, one has to be mad to think that when Allah says fire He means something else. Is He talking to humans or who else? If He wanted us to perceive it as allegorical He would have said "the like of fire"...
You are deluded Arnold, maybe you need to consult a psychiatrist...

مَّثَلُ ٱلۡجَنَّةِ ٱلَّتِى وُعِدَ ٱلۡمُتَّقُونَ‌ۖ فِيہَآ أَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّن مَّآءٍ غَيۡرِ ءَاسِنٍ۬ وَأَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّن لَّبَنٍ۬ لَّمۡ يَتَغَيَّرۡ طَعۡمُهُ ۥ وَأَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّنۡ خَمۡرٍ۬ لَّذَّةٍ۬ لِّلشَّـٰرِبِينَ وَأَنۡہَـٰرٌ۬ مِّنۡ عَسَلٍ۬ مُّصَفًّ۬ى‌ۖ وَلَهُمۡ فِيہَا مِن كُلِّ ٱلثَّمَرَٲتِ وَمَغۡفِرَةٌ۬ مِّن رَّبِّہِمۡ‌ۖ كَمَنۡ هُوَ خَـٰلِدٌ۬ فِى ٱلنَّارِ وَسُقُواْ مَآءً حَمِيمً۬ا فَقَطَّعَ أَمۡعَآءَهُمۡ
A similitude of the Garden which those who keep their duty (to Allah) are promised: Therein are rivers of water unpolluted, and rivers of milk whereof the flavour changeth not, and rivers of wine delicious to the drinkers, and rivers of clear-run honey; therein for them is every kind of fruit, with pardon from their Lord. (Are those who enjoy all this) like those who are immortal in the Fire and are given boiling water to drink so that it teareth their bowels?  47:15

loxbox13

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #165 on: December 17, 2010, 10:20:34 PM »
Salaam,
One simple question: If the Kaaba was indeed still at Jerusalem, why would the Prophet have changed the kiblah?
Such ideas only cause confusion and disputes among the believers (similar to wat has happened with the 3-salat theory).



In the end Allah knows best.

One simple question: If the Kaaba was indeed still at Jerusalem, why would the Prophet have changed the kiblah?
It is not the prophet who changed the Quibla,  it's Allah who changed it, there is a verse in the quran about it.

I still can't find that the first quibla was Jerusalem !  Can someone show how do we know the 1st quibla was jerusalem ?

harris

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #166 on: December 18, 2010, 01:47:43 AM »
One simple question: If the Kaaba was indeed still at Jerusalem, why would the Prophet have changed the kiblah?
It is not the prophet who changed the Quibla,  it's Allah who changed it, there is a verse in the quran about it.

I still can't find that the first quibla was Jerusalem !  Can someone show how do we know the 1st quibla was jerusalem ?


Salaam loxbox,
True. Tats wat I meant, since the Prophet's decisions were based on Allah's instructions. Therefore if the kiblah was changed by Allah, why is it difficult for some muslims to accept that the Kaaba too was shifted from Becca to Mecca?

Peace. In the end, Allah knows best.
Bad boys, whatcha gonna do,
When THEY come for you?

loxbox13

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #167 on: December 18, 2010, 03:28:22 PM »

Salaam loxbox,
True. Tats wat I meant, since the Prophet's decisions were based on Allah's instructions. Therefore if the kiblah was changed by Allah, why is it difficult for some muslims to accept that the Kaaba too was shifted from Becca to Mecca?

Peace. In the end, Allah knows best.
I get your point,  the think that bothers me is the people who love de desobey allah,  I don't know if the first quibla was jerusalem,  it's people's aussumptions,  one think is sure, it wasn't mecca because allah changed it to mecca,  but why don't people accept that the true and only quibla is mecca ?  we don't choose quible, it is allah who chose,  why do some people tell me i have to face jerusalem to pray ? even though allah said mecca,  i don't know if becca is mecca or jerusalem,  i don't know if jerusalem is in jerusalem,  it is only in books of christians that it is actual palestine, why didn't early muslim not call it jerusalem but Quods ?  what if jerusalem isn't a name but an attribute? I know jerusalem means house of peace,  there is too many houses of peace , all places where allah is worshiped,  just like mecca or the mosque next corner,  i believe Jerusalem  turned into politics , that's what made it so important that muslims want's to use it as quible, and desobey allah ,  to me jerusalem is cursed and not holy,  at least the jerusalem we know now,  it has nothing to do with it's name,  house of peace,  i see only bloodshed there, and tyrany,  how can jerusalem be a blessed city ? there's only evil there,  or if it is mentionned as a city of peace by god,  than god was wrong,  he didn't know it becomes the land of evil and bloodshed since the times of romans.  to me it doesn't matter if god tell me to turn to india as quible,  but it has to be from god, meaning in the quran,  i'm not gonna say ohh it was mecca so we have to turn to mecca.  could be becca in palestine, and could be becca is the same as mecca ,  if it's just historical research, i don't believe we will ever know for sure where becca is,  u can find cities named on other cities , we see it tilll these days, so it is just impossible unless u find archeological materiel that says  this is becca,   like the pyramids in egypt,  they are in egypt because there is materiel evidence,  but for others as becca, we only have writings of opinions of people who are known as scholars,  but still, they are scholars and not divine, some of them they have beliefs and they try tp prouve their belief .
Becca becca jerusalem darousalem kaaba the stone all these sound to me a little bit paganism

loxbox13

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Re: Kaaba at Jerusalem and not at Mecca
« Reply #168 on: December 18, 2010, 03:30:57 PM »

Salaam loxbox,
True. Tats wat I meant, since the Prophet's decisions were based on Allah's instructions. Therefore if the kiblah was changed by Allah, why is it difficult for some muslims to accept that the Kaaba too was shifted from Becca to Mecca?

Peace. In the end, Allah knows best.

I don't believe in shiftin kaabas  lol  shifting quibla yes,  kaaba means cube,  it was named after it's form,  maybe if there was a sacred mosque before as a quibla, doesn't have to be called kaaba,  not neccesarily,  kaaba is just bricks ,  just like any other room or house,  some are cubes , some are ovale ,  it's just architecture ,  the quibla isn't the kaaba,  it's the mosque