Question for code believers!

[farah]

salaam,

purpose of the mathematical code as described in 74:30-31 says what we need to know:

74:30 Over it is Nineteen.

74:31 And We appointed angels to be guardians of The Fire; and We have assigned their number only as a test for disbelievers, and for the people of the scripture to attain certainty, and for the believers to increase their belief, and that no doubts may remain for the people of the scripture and the believers, and as for those who have a disease in their hearts and the disbelievers say, what did God mean by this example?   God thus sends astray whomever He wills and guides whomever He wills. And no one knows the armies of your Lord except He and this is only a reminder for the all the people.

And with the previous, and current, revelations of the mathematical code, we can see that God's predictions in verse 31 are true.

see http://journal_of_submission.homestead.com/archives.html (homepage www.ultimatemathematics.com) for more information on the code.

peace,
farah

[ayman]

Peace Farah,

purpose of the mathematical code as described in 74:30-31 says what we need to know:
74:31 And We appointed angels to be guardians of The Fire; and We have assigned their number only as a test for disbelievers, and for the people of the scripture to attain certainty, and for the believers to increase their belief, and that no doubts may remain for the people of the scripture and the believers, and as for those who have a disease in their hearts and the disbelievers say, what did God mean by this example?   God thus sends astray whomever He wills and guides whomever He wills. And no one knows the armies of your Lord except He and this is only a reminder for the all the people.

Please read 74:30-31 carefully. You will see no "and" after "only as a test for disbelievers". So this counting of 19 is ONLY a test for the disbelievers.

The following: "the people of the scripture to attain certainty, and for the believers to increase their belief, and that no doubts may remain for the people of the scripture and the believers, and as for those who have a disease in their hearts and the disbelievers say, what did God mean by this example?"  is a result of "the count being only as a test for disbelievers" NOT the result of the count by itself.

Peace,

Ayman

[farah]

Salaam Ayman,

I respectfully disagree. I believe that the verse shows not only one reason for the code, but more than one. I believe it shows clearly that the code is directed toward more than simply the disbelievers. There is something in it for the believers too.

And with respect to grammar, there IS an "and" after the phrase "only as a test for disbelievers"! not sure how that makes/refutes your point, but it's there!

it is not in the spirit of us, whose hearts should be rendered wide open to submission, to look for reasons to doubt or to justify our own conclusions. anyway, speaking in terms of reason and logic, if there exists an astonishing mathematical code in Quran, why would our faith NOT be augmented?

peace,
farah

[ayman]

Peace Farah,

I respectfully disagree. I believe that the verse shows not only one reason for the code, but more than one. I believe it shows clearly that the code is directed toward more than simply the disbelievers. There is something in it for the believers too.
And with respect to grammar, there IS an "and" after the phrase "only as a test for disbelievers"! not sure how that makes/refutes your point, but it's there!

Thank you for respecful disagreement. However, this has nothing to do with my opinion or your opinion. The passage clearly has no "AND" where you claim there is an "AND" and this is indisputable. Please see the original Arabic from Dr. Khalifa's edition or from any other edition:


وَمَا جَعَلْنَا أَصْحَابَ النَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَائِكَةً وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَيَزْدَادَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِيمَانًا وَلَا يَرْتَابَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَلِيَقُولَ الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَالْكَافِرُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَذَا مَثَلًا كَذَلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّهُ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ وَمَا هِيَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَى لِلْبَشَرِ

Had there been an "AND" then the passage would have looked like this:

وَمَا جَعَلْنَا أَصْحَابَ النَّارِ إِلَّا مَلَائِكَةً وَمَا جَعَلْنَا عِدَّتَهُمْ إِلَّا فِتْنَةً لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا و لِيَسْتَيْقِنَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَيَزْدَادَ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِيمَانًا وَلَا يَرْتَابَ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَابَ وَالْمُؤْمِنُونَ وَلِيَقُولَ الَّذِينَ فِي قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ وَالْكَافِرُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَذَا مَثَلًا كَذَلِكَ يُضِلُّ اللَّهُ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَمَا يَعْلَمُ جُنُودَ رَبِّكَ إِلَّا هُوَ وَمَا هِيَ إِلَّا ذِكْرَى لِلْبَشَرِ

it is not in the spirit of us, whose hearts should be rendered wide open to submission, to look for reasons to doubt or to justify our own conclusions. anyway, speaking in terms of reason and logic, if there exists an astonishing mathematical code in Quran, why would our faith NOT be augmented?

The implications of not having an "AND" are clear as I explained in my previous post. Modifying the passage by adding an "AND" to make it fit the idea of "augmenting faith" is not exactly being faithful to the book of the god. Having true faith is to have faith in what the god actually says not what we desire him to say. 

I hope this helps.

Peace,

Ayman

[Bahman]

Peace everybody

74:31 has been pondered more than any verse on this forum and 19.org too
Ayman rejection for existence any code 19 in Qur An  is not new but his claim for removing ?and? from translation and showing such thing do no exist in Arabic text is new.
As usual such case challenged me to see if there is a numerical message based on code by letters GV.

But prior to conclusion I would like to check my work . I am sure Ayman would help me.
GW may be something in this attempt.

I used Arabic text by Submission.



640137030501
وماجعلنا
19082130501200
اصحب النار
13014030205
الاملکه
640137030501704400540
وماجعلناعدتهم
1301804005053030700105020802006
الا فتنه الذین کفرو
13010604001010050
الیستیقین
16400611302040026107414
الذین اوتواالکتب ویزداد
13070010501140506111040501
الذین ءامنواایمنا
630110200400121307001050
ولا یرتاب الذین
164006113020400261304064050650
اوتوا الکتب والمومنون
6301010063013070010508010100306254040200800
ولیقول الذین فی قلوبهم مرض
613020802006504017001120014130305
والکفرون ماذااراد الله
2570014050030120700130201080030130305
بهذا مثلا کذالک یضل الله
40501030011610541040501030011
من یشاء ویهدی من یشاء
64011070304035064200220130156202001030302300200
وما یعلم جنود ربک الا هو
640151013013070020200103030260200
وما هی الا لذکری للبشر

Is those GV right?
Thank You
Peace.

[Deena]

It took 1400 years to discover the 19-pattern.

It might take another 1400 years to discover another pattern in the Quran.

I think the Quran has something amazing in it for its future readers to ponder as we did over the 19-pattern.

[Bahman]

Peace.

It took 1400 years to discover the 19-pattern.

God knows future when embedded code 74:30 into messages 1400 years ago .The only way to witness code is man made creature from earthly material.

Pharos body was preserved for generation to see and take lesson  after 1900

It might take another 1400 years to discover another pattern in the Quran.

I think the Quran has something amazing in it for its future readers to ponder as we did over the 19-pattern.
[/quote]
I am not sure when it would happen but our knowledge would be increased that we will be able to imitate some patterns already discovered. Such imitation will not decrease importance of code but will increase when we are using our tools which were not available 1400 years ago.  But you are right for new discoveries which seven seas of ink and all trres as pen can not finish it.

I think the Quran has something amazing in it for its future readers to ponder as we did over the 19-pattern.

I agree


However

As you notice nobody assisted me to examine my work up to now.
In my multiple examinations I found I had missed a word gv of this part
16400611302040026107414
الذین اوتواالکتب ویزداد
Should be :
130700105016400611302040026107414
This is a reminder to all religions believe in code 7 for their book.
Converting letters to their value we would have a figure like this

6401370305011908213050120013014030205640137030501704400540130804005053
030700105020802006130106040
01010050130700105016400611302040026107414130700105011405061110405016301
10200400121307001050164006113020400261304064050650630101006301307001050801
0100306254040200800613020802006504017001120014130
30525700140500301207003020108003013030540501030011610541040501030011
64011070304035064200220130156
64015101301700202001030302300200    74:31   
by adding chapter and verse number at the end =

7x
914481472144558316150017144716290029377162432928814914362875829143579004385729288
6860008757294342
8715721447242872145200087328862860872487732957157858772151587200716614443143428744
724287214520008
732886286087577234358072328715723287581430072572871472322005742971516145828858
072002428731430590043608143057857573152861457297147161472200715757159443630057
85861430234301529005764377428885900223
77164430431000288572900431857429633
all letters chapter and verse number are inyerlocked into 7.
Peace

[AspeRin]

peace all
if the "secrets" of quran,because u dont know them until u submit to God,were,exposed internationally,in a serious way,people will realize that its from God,there is a God and that it should be obeyed...thats means u need propaganda,thats the way u get to the people.........there is a propaganda going on for centuries to cancel the chance for a such thing to happen(world knowledge of quran).the ones responsible for that are the ones behing 911,expose that truth and when people realize all that,they would be taken out of power and their propaganda will stop.
lets go step by step.
now its important 911 truth.

what are you people doing about it?talking about if the code 19 is real or not?
what about start doing a little more and talk less...including myself,i have to go
take care everyone!
peace be with you all

[thegod]

bahman wrote:
Peace.
Imagine that some how somebody using all these advanced and supplicated programs be able to produce a chapter like those with embedded interlocks we witness in Quran text.

Do you believe still  Quran is authored by God ?
Peace.

# hope u dont mind getting responses from other than "code believers" as well! :-)

# i am not sure about whether or not there is a mathematical structure underlining the text, but some of the stuff people bring up (calculating percentage of earth covered by water) is interesting nevertheless. ofcourse i have never tried to verify such claims...so dunno how much of it really is valid! :-)

## as for the number 19 code (if thats what u mean by code believers), may or may not be that there is some pattern....does seem a fairly complicated procedure though...but like its proponents say.....thats where computers come into play!

### that said, dont think those who believe by the quran await mathematics or "science" to prove its authenticity! :-)