peace Oneway.
in your thread u posted the link http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2702 to Dave Miller's article about the "violent" verses of the Koran .
2:190-194 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than killng. And do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers. And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is God's. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked. What is done in the restricted month may be retaliated in the same month, and murder shall be punishable by execution. Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you; and be aware of God, and know that God is with the righteous.
Remember the Koranic rules of fighting :
? fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress
? do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it;
? If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked
? Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you
Keep these rules in mind while reading all the verses posted in Dave Miller?s article . then tell us if u still find the verses "violent" :
47:4 So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their neck until you capture them, then bind them securely. Then you may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.
2:216-217 Fighting has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; God knows while you do not know. They ask you about the restricted month: "Is there fighting in it?" Say: "Much fighting is in it, and to repel from the path of God and to disbelieve in Him, and at the restricted Temple, to drive its inhabitants out is far greater with God, and persecution is worse than killing." And they still will fight you until they turn you back from your system if they are able. And whoever of you turns back from his system, and he dies while disbelieving, then these have nullified their work in this life and the next; these are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide eternally!
9:1-5 And a declaration from God and His messenger to the people on this day of the extended Pilgrimage: "That God and His messenger are innocent from all those who set-up partners." If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected of a painful retribution. Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among those who have set-up partners if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they plan to attack you; you shall continue the treaty with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous. So when the restricted months are passed, then you may kill those who have set-up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and hold the salat, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful. And if any of those who have set-up partners seeks your protection, then you may protect him so that he may hear the words of God, then let him reach his sanctuary. This is because they are a people who do not know.
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The Sects claim that the concept of defensive war has been abrogated by these verses in Chapter 9
5. But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful
29. Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book,
until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Jizya is then explained by the Sects as a tax to be paid by non Muslims to the Muslim ruler. Of course we know that what really these sects believe abrogated the defensive war verses of the Koran is this hadith:
Ibn ‘Umar related that the Messenger of Allah, upon whom be peace, said, “I have been ordered to fight the people until they testify that there is no god except Allah, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer and pay the zakah. If they do that, their blood and wealth are protected from me save by the rights of Islam. Their reckoning will be with Allah.” (Related by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)”
And even a casual glance at that hadith we know must have also abrogated many other verses and not just the defensive war verses like
17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe ....
Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith16:82 But if they turn away from you,
your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message 6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him;
hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them88:21 22; And so,
exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man.
Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.
But since some Sunni scholars want to hide behind the Koran and are ashamed to say that the hadith abrogates the Koran, we will go along with it for argument sake.
So what is Jizya anyways:
The Arabic term jizya appears in verse Quran 9:29, but the Qur'an does not specify jizya as a tax per head. According to Paul Heck, the jizya taxation seems to be a developed form of the Sassanian practice of taxation.[10]
Commentators disagree on the definition and derivation of the word jizya:
Shakir and Khalifa's English translations of the Qur'an render jizya as "tax", while Pickthal translates it as "tribute". Yusuf Ali prefers to transliterate the term as jizyah.
Yusuf Ali states "The derived meaning, which became the technical meaning, was a poll tax levied from those who did not accept Islam, but were willing to live under the protection of Islam, and were thus tacitly willing to submit to the laws enforced by the Muslim State."[11]
Monqiz As-Saqqar attributes the word jizya to the root word jaza meaning "compensate" and defines it as "a sum of money given in return for protection".[12]
Ibn Al-Mutaraz derives the word from 'idjză, meaning "substitute" or "sufficiency" because "it suffices as a substitute for the dhimmi's embracement of Islam."[12]
Yusuf al-Qaradawi says the word jizya is derived from the jazaa', meaning "reward", "return", or "compensation", and defines it as "a payment by the non-Muslim according to an agreement signed with the Muslim state".[13]
Edward William Lane, in An Arabic-English Lexicon defines jizya as a "tax that is taken from the free non-Muslim subjects of a Muslim government whereby they ratify the compact that assures them protection.[14]
Ibn Rushd explains that jizya is in fact a broader concept than just a head-tax. It also includes monies exacted in times of war – what is normally understood in English by the word ‘tribute’ – as well as levies (‘ushr) on non-muslim merchants who are trading in the Dar al-Harb.[15]
In practice, the word is applied to a special type of tax, levied upon the non-Muslim adult males living under an Islamic state.
After the Norman conquest of Sicily, taxes imposed on the Muslim minority were also called the "jizya".[5]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JizyaLets look at how they define that term:
compensation, reward, substitute, tribute, return.
Well we know from the Koran that there were many Jews and pagans living in Medina. We also know that they interacted with the prophet and that the prophet had political power over them to some degree. Yet there is no mentioning of Jizya except when the believers were just about to enter Mecca. Anotherwords Jizya in the Koran came when talking about the Meccans upon entering that city.
I don't know about you but i know if I was forced into exile and taken from my home and lost my possession and business and whatever else I had and suffered all those years from the pagans of Mecca because of my religious belief:
9.13. Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe
I know I would want some compensation, some reward, some substitute, some tribute. Jizya is just like a war reperation and being compensated for damages. The believers entered Mecca where many of them came from, this is no conquest. Conquest(ghazu) has no mentioning in the Koran. Conquest is taking land that was never your homeland. In fact what the hadith tried to do was to pave a way for conquests. Then introduce taxes to create wealth. Take that and prisoners of war sold as slaves, you got yourself a pretty profitable scenario. No doubt all this was useful for the dictators.
It really show us how deviated some aspects of these Sects are.
