Critical Examination of Islam > Quranic Divinity
Armed Conflict, Violence, and the Quran
Fahad:
peace Oneway.
in your thread u posted the link http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2702 to Dave Miller's article about the "violent" verses of the Koran .
2:190-194 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than killng. And do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers. And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is God's. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked. What is done in the restricted month may be retaliated in the same month, and murder shall be punishable by execution. Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you; and be aware of God, and know that God is with the righteous.
Remember the Koranic rules of fighting :
? fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress
? do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it;
? If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked
? Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you
Keep these rules in mind while reading all the verses posted in Dave Miller?s article . then tell us if u still find the verses "violent" :
47:4 So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their neck until you capture them, then bind them securely. Then you may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.
2:216-217 Fighting has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; God knows while you do not know. They ask you about the restricted month: "Is there fighting in it?" Say: "Much fighting is in it, and to repel from the path of God and to disbelieve in Him, and at the restricted Temple, to drive its inhabitants out is far greater with God, and persecution is worse than killing." And they still will fight you until they turn you back from your system if they are able. And whoever of you turns back from his system, and he dies while disbelieving, then these have nullified their work in this life and the next; these are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide eternally!
9:1-5 And a declaration from God and His messenger to the people on this day of the extended Pilgrimage: "That God and His messenger are innocent from all those who set-up partners." If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected of a painful retribution. Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among those who have set-up partners if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they plan to attack you; you shall continue the treaty with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous. So when the restricted months are passed, then you may kill those who have set-up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and hold the salat, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful. And if any of those who have set-up partners seeks your protection, then you may protect him so that he may hear the words of God, then let him reach his sanctuary. This is because they are a people who do not know.
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oneway:
--- Quote from: "saladin" ---peace Oneway.
in your thread u posted the link http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2702 to Dave Miller's article about the "violent" verses of the Koran .
2:190-194 And fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress, God does not like the aggressors. And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than killng. And do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the reward of the disbelievers. And fight them so there is no more persecution, and so that the system is God's. If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked. What is done in the restricted month may be retaliated in the same month, and murder shall be punishable by execution. Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you; and be aware of God, and know that God is with the righteous.
Remember the Koranic rules of fighting :
? fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but do not transgress
? do not fight them at the restricted Temple unless they fight you in it;
? If they cease, then there will be no aggression except against the wicked
? Whoever attacks you, then you shall attack him the same as he attacked you
Keep these rules in mind while reading all the verses posted in Dave Miller?s article . then tell us if u still find the verses "violent" :
47:4 So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their neck until you capture them, then bind them securely. Then you may either set them free or ransom them, until the war ends. And had God willed, He alone could have beaten them, but He thus tests you by one another. As for those who get killed in the cause of God, He will never let their deeds be put to waste.
2:216-217 Fighting has been decreed for you while you hate it; and perhaps you may hate something while it is good for you, and perhaps you may love something while it is bad for you; God knows while you do not know. They ask you about the restricted month: "Is there fighting in it?" Say: "Much fighting is in it, and to repel from the path of God and to disbelieve in Him, and at the restricted Temple, to drive its inhabitants out is far greater with God, and persecution is worse than killing." And they still will fight you until they turn you back from your system if they are able. And whoever of you turns back from his system, and he dies while disbelieving, then these have nullified their work in this life and the next; these are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide eternally!
9:1-5 And a declaration from God and His messenger to the people on this day of the extended Pilgrimage: "That God and His messenger are innocent from all those who set-up partners." If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected of a painful retribution. Except for those with whom you had a treaty from among those who have set-up partners if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they plan to attack you; you shall continue the treaty with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous. So when the restricted months are passed, then you may kill those who have set-up partners wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and hold the salat, and contribute towards betterment, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful. And if any of those who have set-up partners seeks your protection, then you may protect him so that he may hear the words of God, then let him reach his sanctuary. This is because they are a people who do not know.
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--- End quote ---
I think the author of that article laid out the case better than I could, but in response to your question, doesn't the fact that there exist "Koranic rules for fighting" prove that it endorses violence?
47:4 "So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their neck until you capture them..."
Sure sounds violent to me.
Peace,
oneway.
Fahad:
peace.
--- Quote from: "oneway" ---I think the author of that article laid out the case better than I could,
--- End quote ---
the author is relying on extra Koranic sources .
--- Quote ---but in response to your question, doesn't the fact that there exist "Koranic rules for fighting" prove that it endorses violence?
--- End quote ---
only against those who fight u . and in like manner . whats wrong in it ? it is only allowed in self defence .
--- Quote ---47:4 "So, if you encounter those who have rejected, then strike their neck until you capture them..."
Sure sounds violent to me.
--- End quote ---
wouldnt they strike your neck , if u dont strike theirs ? this is self defence .
u are not keeping the rules in mind .
sometimes fighting becomes a necessity :
2:251 ..If God had not repelled some people by means of others, the earth would have been corrupted
Lobster:
peace oneway, all
fighting with guns and swords somtimes becomes necessary (for someone who supports the war in iraq, you should know this). I don't like violence, i'd rather find other means to solve my problems. But sometimes you have to do things you don't like. The quran never says we should carry guns with us everyday shooting people that don't agree with our beliefs.
AhmedBahgat:
--- Quote from: "phoenix1" ---peace oneway, all
fighting with guns and swords somtimes becomes necessary (for someone who supports the war in iraq, you should know this). I don't like violence, i'd rather find other means to solve my problems. But sometimes you have to do things you don't like. The quran never says we should carry guns with us everyday shooting people that don't agree with our beliefs.
--- End quote ---
Good point bro
I can imagine someone red faced
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