The Quranic Society (Please Read This)

[Damon]

Peace Nural,

It's very obvious that you and I do not see this the same way. Also, I wish not go into the direction that this discussion is heading. That was not my intention behind this thread. I have to say that you have your way of seeing things and I have my way of seeing things and I am content to just leave it at that.

My proposal in this thread is for those who are able to grasp what I am advocating  here and thus are willing to take the necessary steps to implement this very strategy.

Peace be with you.

[Damon]

Peace y'all,

The debate over spiritual texts, what book came first and when, believers, non believers of the Qur'an, etc...all this is a wonderful discussion if someone is open to participating in a religious debate. But we are talking about advocating the rules, laws, and suggestions of the Qur'an without initially attacking someone's religious belief. This way, you are being extremely respectful of the various paths and cultures of mankind.

BINGO!!  

[mquran]

Salaamun alaikum Damon, Salikah and Nural Amin,

I'm inclined to look at the methodology of various personalities in al-quraan. Nowhere , I find, that any personalities threw books at people. They usually went with speeches like 'O my people, serve Allah, you have no god other than Him' then go on to deliver an ethical precept.

I believe that its not necessary to use the term 'islam' and 'muslim'. Not only that, in this day and age it could also be detrimental to the message itself when one does use these terms. Having said this, Allah does command us to speak straight words (4/9) and so to me, I would have to ready an explaination of essentially who I am and what I follow

Al-Quraan can't simply be thrown at people unless we ignore the valley that our interpretations represent. Rather, I think al-quraan is more suited to being our own personal instructor. Something we read at nights to keep us going. Some parts we do read to others, but only those parts relevant to our mission at that point in time.

thanks and peace

[Nural Amin]

Peace,

Thank you for your ideas, my basic idea is that there has been alot on this Book recently.  The Book is split into two, Quran + Scripture, personally I agree and this explains alot about the fundamentals and metaphorical vereses.

All I am trying to say is that I agree with promoting self-explanatory verses, such as being righteous and not harming people etc etc but I think people should be careful when talking about the metaphorical verses.  That should be left to discuss like this, because we derive individual understandings and share this rather than promoting on an agreed one and forming a cult or sect.  

The fundamentals are the most important and all believers in the world will have no problem in listening and agreeing, but when talk of Salat/ramadan/nineteen and all these other things and about multiple meaning verses are discussed, people get confused and they also run away because they don't want to hear someone trying to justify gobbledygook.  The most important thing here is to get the good word of promoting righteousness out, rather than all these other ideologies.

Nural

[Wakas]

peace Damon, all,

'the reading' indeed does hold principles above a belief stated by mouth.

Even the so-called names muslim/kafir etc. are based on their original/word meanings. It can easily be seen that promotion of principle is at its core, and thus this would be the core of a society based on such a book.

Its a mix between secular & theocracy and I'm not surprised it holds this position.

The Natural Republic is indeed good, but it needs a lot of work, in my opinion.


Wakas

[Grourself]

Peace,

I've had some very uplifting experiences just discussing morality, justice and family values (using the Reading as my source of information). I've even had someone say, "How did you get so smart?" This I get from professionals, i.e., doctors, lawyers and all. One woman said, ?I think you?ve changed my life.? That was heavy. I never realized the impact on people who have never been presented with a view of a good life based on the Reading.

I spend a lot of time debating with those who call themselves muslims and it's like spiting in the wind.  :oops:

One of the mistakes I think we make is when we are speaking English we throw in Arabic words. When these words are translated into our respective language it takes away the stigma of the fabricated religion based on corruptions of the Reading and outside sources.

I speak about a peaceful society, [Islam] and surrendering peacefully to God, and being a peaceful person, [muslim]. I like to make it clear in the beginning that serving for God has nothing to do with religion. I do it everywhere I go, the bookstore, on line at the grocery store and in the auto repair shop. Recently my daughter came to pick me up and a customer I had run into a couple of times before asked if she was my daughter and told her how fortunate she was to have me for a parent because of my insight. This was from quietly listening to me chat up whoever is sitting nearby about a peaceful orderly society where each individual is committed to values [mu?min]. I may make reference to Socrates or the fall of communism and give solutions based on my understanding of the Reading. Wise people are always drawn in and find themselves in agreement.

I think I may have related this before but it sticks with me. My Jewish surgeon was shocked to find that what I talk about is actually the Qur?aan. He himself questions Judaism and the Talmud. I asked him as a scientist, [as per the Qur'aan], what he thought about God and creation. His reply was ?text book Qur'aan?. Something like, when he looks inside a brain, knowing what he knows about how it works, he knows this was done by a Divine Creator. When he looks over the landscape on vacation and marvels at the beauty, same thing. But, and then there was a big BUT, he doesn?t think this Creator cares about his beard or how he eats or a number of the things in the fake hadith the Jews call the Talmud. He thinks doing things beneficial to humanity is what God wants us to do. I told him I agreed and so does the Qur'aan. He was amazed and now when I have an appointment you wouldn?t want to be next in the waiting room. He is ripe for true Islam.

God asks questions in the Reading. I try to ask the people the same questions. I've also found that they love to answer or try to answer  

There are plenty of God?s servants out there seeking the truth.

[10.82] And The God will show/establish the truth to be the truth by His words, though the guilty may be averse (to it).

I?m with Damon. We need to just ?Do it? and the IT doesn?t need a label.

Some friends had a magazine they called Signs [ayats]. I thought that was a really good choice as is Layth?s Natural Republic as a name. Deen is not religion.

[Alen]

Yep! I think that highlighting the principles of the Qur'an instead of the Qur'an itself is great outreach strategy.  Once you mention Qur'an, people's mindsets automatically switch to religious mode (maybe even our own).  This automatically creates barriers and causes people to become defensive, or dismissive, or suspicious, or whatever.


my personal experience: When I am discussing with people, I intentionally do not mention the qur'an (despite the fact that I try to base my principles and idealogies on this Guide).  If the person is intrigued, they usually inquire where and how I came up with a specific concept or idealogy.  This is when I let the cat out of the bag! I found that discussions of the Qur'an after inquiry of interest are much more productive than when I throw  the word Qur'an in their face without initial explanation.  

Here's the funny thing:  Their response is usually something like: "Salikah, how can you follow the Qur'an? You are so progressive.  You're not submissive like other muslim women.  I didn't take you for the religious type."

And that's when the qur'an discussion begins.  If they don't ask, I rarely tell... :wink:

As salamu alaykum.
Respectfully.

Yes, yes, that's exactly like me!
Salikah, you're just like me.
Once i was asked what do i think of gays and i said that is a sin and they asked why so i said because gays think that their relationship is normal but when it comes to having a baby, they need a really normal couple to have a baby for them.
Then they ask about my religion because they wanna know which religion is that one which has such a beautiful answer to gays.

Hope this wasn't off topic.
As salamu alaykum.

[sugar]

I think Damon?s idea is fantastic but here in England I reckon the deterioration of society is irreversible. I remember at school being homophobic was considered just as bad as being racist. I remember my teachers telling rude jokes to the class and it was okay for kids to say rude stuff. I aint old fashion or anything but the filthy comments they came out with made me cringe. Our sex education lessons were a complete joke! When I was 15 I knew 3 girls my age that got pregnant, it was considered no big deal and a lot of the kids I knew seemed to think it was `cool` for someone our age to have a baby. So many people at school were astonished that I?ve never tried alcohol and that I did not intend to try it either, they acted like I was an alien.  Alcohol is a huge problem amongst traditional Muslims aswell.  In my RE lessons when we were discussing morel decisions people were making comments like ?marriage is just a piece of paper? and ?you can go to a shop and touch everything but you don?t have to buy it?.  My PHSE teacher said that there were kids as young as 7 having sex!! One of the PE teachers was a lesbian and she used to look at the girls getting changed in the changing rooms! Thank god she never taught me PE or else I would have smacked her! 

It is my personal belief that we need to address the family. If we can reach the family and implement a sound strategy which instills Quranic morals in the family social setting, this will prepare todays kids to be tomorrows leaders and exemplars. We need to tackle the lack of proper upbringing, child abuse, spousal abuse, drugs and alcohol and the all too rampant trend of children having to grow up without fathers or male role models.

I think we should start at school. My mum knew a few families that said that they refused to send their children to school lest they become ?immoral?. But these days everyone just wants to keep God out of the class room and making blasphemous comments about other people?s religion was considered `ok` by some teachers at my school.

Peace,
Sugar 

[matinbhagat]

Salam,

well brothers and sisters,on reading the quran,we can understand that the quran speaks not just of personal salvation,but on salvation on a societal/ communal basis.Every community has its prescribed time to choose the right path or the wrong.Our duty is not just to follow the personal level teachings,like good deeds etc alone,for personal salvation,though that is very important,one can only be a complete muslim i realise,is when we try and promote quranic ideas to set up a society based on quranic ideals.In fact,many western demoracies do have a lot of quranic ideals in their system as compared to so called islamic countries who are quite the opposite of islamic.However,how we reach out to people,as some brothers and sisters have pointed out is through the spreading of quranic ideals,we can mention the ideals to invoke interest then mention the quran when questioned about the source,that way we can help ppl from putting mental blocks on themselves.Also,I believe even though we may not be able to change many things in our lifetimes,we should try ur best to strive,and that is what God wants.Not equal is the striving and the sedentary.Also, we should use books,media and all peaceful methods only.Violence is never an option,unless one is oppressed or violence is used against us.I do like western countries,not all,but most of them as they have freedom of worship,which is quranic,I kindaf hate "islamic" countries that take away people's freedom and forces them to remain muslim against their beliefs,thus religionising islam...islam is not a religion,it is a state of mind,and a divine system..in fact the word deen is so rich,it cant be translated appropriately...only interpreted as in the words of parwez,one of the thinkers amongst muslims of the past.Salam.

[andy]

Salamun 'alaykum all brothers and sisters,

110:1 When comes the Help of Allah, and Victory,
110:2 And thou dost see the people enter Allah's Religion in crowds,
110:3 Celebrate the praises of thy Lord, and pray for His Forgiveness: For He is Oft-Returning (in Grace and Mercy).

I do hope I witness the victory and see people enter the deen of Allah in crowds (have no idea where it would be though). As for now, IMHO it is just the beginning ...