Messages

11

General Issues / Questions / Re: the 5 pilars and what they teach

« on: February 19, 2011, 10:17:17 PM »

God gave us the times for the Salat (contact Prayers) in the Qur'an :

(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58

from what i can tell the noon prayer and afternoon prayer may be the same, unless further understanding is revealed in the Arabic to distinguish between the two, and the night prayer is said to be extra credit, unless of course it can be shown in the Arabic that the wording is also different to distinguish between an actual prescribed time for the fifth contact prayer and the extra credit prayer.

but i think this is splitting hairs. with a basis in the Qur'an evidence can be shown to support both 5 prayers and 3 prayers. since the evidence of the practice of salat that Abraham and others practiced is all but lost, we do not have the original practice of it to compare it to recorded exactly in the older scriptures. we do however have similar practices by some Jews and Samaritans who prostrated and recited similarly worded prayers prior to the Qur'an as witnessed by their contemporaries.

again i am not concerned with format, or the number of times, whether the reason is to make things easier or more practical or simply because someone is lazy, my aim was to show how these practices re-enforce the principles in the Qur'an, not to split hairs over particular opinions or gripes. what do they teach? is the teaching grounded in the Qur'an? nobody has really answered this question. instead i find one or the other soap box about why this or that practice is really this or that format, or why certain parts of a practice is silly or additions to it are present. i dont care about what the innovators are doing or have done or have implemented in their nations. i'm not here to correct them, i have no power over them. my concern is what do these practices teach. if they teach Qur'anic principles then what is the harm? if they violate them entirely then they should be discarded. if the practices are grounded in Qur'anic teaching then only the parts that violate the Qur'an should be discarded. it is simple as that. and since i have shown that the basic practices, regardless of the format, are in line with and re-enforces the Qur'anic principles, then why am i getting so much silliness? why are people completely missing the point and sidetracking this discourse with their own complaints or gripes or soap boxes?

this is exactly why there is so much infighting and creation of sects (division) within Islam is because people want to get sidetracked over non issues, split hairs and forget that the aim is not to control everyone else, but to find the truth.

12

Introduce Yourself / Re: How i came to find the truth

« on: February 19, 2011, 09:17:43 PM »

i do the same, in fact on the weekends i fast similarly to what one would do during Ramadan. and i devote the bulk of the weekend to spiritual study. i also think about how Islam applies to my life throughout the day, and pray to/ worship Allah all day during work. often times i hum a contemporary Muslim tune, or repeat the words to myself. and i have found i am much happier and at peace with others just by doing these things. and a genuine smile doesn't hurt.

since i have made the conscious decision to follow the will of the creator, things are for the most part falling in place.

now of course i dont always go unhindered through the day, sometimes people look at me weirdly, i have even had some say i look like a terrorist since i have a beard. instead of taking offense, i just talk to them with the same respect or even better than i did before i decided to follow the creator. this usually diffuses these ignorant comments and they realize they have nothing to worry about.

13

General Issues / Questions / Re: the 5 pilars and what they teach

« on: February 19, 2011, 09:04:09 PM »

they are foundational because they teach principles that are core to Islam. it is not the acts themselves that are important, or the format, but what they teach and how they can re-enforce those ideas at the core of the Qur'an. of course they should only be done if they really have solid examples in the Qur'an.

have any of the principles i mentioned contradicted the Qur'an in any way? i dont think so.

conscious decision, consistency, self limitations (self restraint/ self discipline), community responsibility, and unity are all core principles in the Qur'an. to throw the baby out with the bathwater is not only silly but ignores the value of these practices as tools to teach Muslims how to apply these principles to their lives. practical application of them cannot be ignored. they must be placed in the proper context and practiced according to the examples in the Qur'an and not because they are mandated according to Hadith or Sunnah.

so what should we do then? discard everything that may have the color of innovation, or added to, without seriously re-examining them and possibly forging them into more Qur'anically grounded functions?

it is no wonder that some Muslims accuse others of being innovators, because human nature tends to make people go to extreme measures in order to show they are really changing something. i'm merely saying that all change does not need to be extreme, and careful thought must be pursued before truly meaningful and practical change can occur. again, everything must be grounded in the teachings of the Qur'an and then examined to see if it is practical or can be a tool to teach the principles of the Qur'an. if it falls outside of these criterion, then it has no place in Islam. this goes for all Hadith, Sunnah, and even Islamic law.

14

Quranic Divinity / Re: Doubt!

« on: February 19, 2011, 05:36:30 PM »

let me add to this too. every time i have had a doubt of something said in the Qur'an, Allah has guided me to the best answer to rid me of doubt. and i dont even have to look far. often times it pops up when i am not looking, or before i can even ask anyone else where the answer is.

this has happened with every point where there could be doubt, and many have encountered this same doubt when confronted by this or that verse.

this is why we should not despair when faced with doubt, but simply ask Allah for guidance. he will and he does guide us.

15

Salat & Zakat (The Contact & Purification) / Re: Salat = Meetings or Link , and has nothing to do with prayer.

« on: February 19, 2011, 04:25:20 PM »

i find this interesting since there is a Hadith (i know, i know) that says to wash any bird killed by a dog and rub it with "dirt" in order to purify it. could this not also mean to wash the bird and then apply seasoning to it? if so then this is most assuredly common in all culinary practices around the world and therefore shows the silliness of some of the interpretations these stories and that many of them state the obvious and are not really revelations, lol.

i know a bit off topic but it hit me when there was made mention of dirt equating a good smelling perfume, or any other good thing that would be pleasing that looks like dirt. seasoning would be a good thing that looks similar to dirt.

16

General Issues / Questions / Re: abrogation

« on: February 19, 2011, 02:50:52 PM »

thank you Alfajr,

this clarifies it even further. that past scriptures, parts of which were abrogated and things that were once prohibited are now allowed in the Qur'an. but this does not say that everything was abrogated in the past scriptures which makes sense if we mean to find our history and legacy in the past scriptures and connect it to the worship of one true creator.

again sometimes we as humans tend to make things much more complicated than they are, and the answer of Allah is always one of simplicity and purity.

17

General Issues / Questions / abrogation

« on: February 18, 2011, 10:03:31 PM »

does anyone else seem to think this extreme idea of abrogation is ridiculous? in my observation, even though Allah said he can abrogate whatever he wills, that this is not really the intention in the apparent contradictions in the Qur'an, which many have assumed mean the more recent or Medina verses erase the previous Mecca verses. instead i think it is more correct to view this supposed abrogation as progression, or the rules of progression for any given topic in the Qur'an. these graduations of progression can be repeated, instead of completely throwing out a previous statement in favor of the most recent.

for example, with respect to jihad, there are many scholars who claim that jihad was first commanded to be the internal struggle then eventually the next order superseded it and it became active war against non believers in defense, then offensively to those that were idol worshipers, then actively offensive war against all those who were not Muslim, regardless of the admitted brotherhood between Judaism, Christianity and Islam that was mentioned previously.

however i think they are forgetting one simple fact. the context with which the progression graduated to the next level. for instance those that Muhammad encountered in one verse may not have been the same people as he was encountering in the next, or the same caliber of people, or they could have called themselves believers, but their actions were entirely opposite those that were believers. or they flew the christian banner and raped, murdered and beheaded Muslim people regardless of age or gender. in other words, we see there could be many different types of people Muhammad encountered at various stages, and not all fit into these categories in nice neat little bundles. so the progression is directly related to the circumstances and hostility that was encountered until the reason for the hostility was indeed justified. this tackles the problem of supposed abrogation without actually discarding the suggested path of progression, which can then be repeated to whatever level of hostility is warranted, and help determine if it is indeed necessary. then if things go back to normal, and peace ensues, or the evil doers were finally gone, then  a new group of truly peaceful people who did not engage in hostilities was present, there is no need to continue the hostilities for the sake of supposed abrogation, that would be ridiculous.

the original ideas would still stand and if warranted then progression to the next level would be necessary, however if things subsided you would revert back to the original idea. does this make any sense?

i think in this case i specifically focused on we are witnessing a thorough exploration of rules of engagement in war time or in the preparation for the eventuality of it. however i dont think it is wise to assume that what Allah prescribed would then be discarded by a more recent prescription, especially if there was no knowledge of the first step to begin with or no attempt to try it yet. one must come before the next is warranted.

in this case i think the wisest approach is to give every encounter the same treatment in graduations, each person or group would be given the same opportunities in graduation until the inevitability of the final prescription was unavoidable. then the next group would be given the same opportunity and respect.

i suspect this idea of abrogation is a deliberately lazy approach to the teachings of the Qur'an and ignores the personal responsibility aspect of each progression.

18

General Issues / Questions / Re: the 5 pilars and what they teach

« on: February 18, 2011, 07:59:40 PM »

if i seem to have a fetish for the word Fitnah, it is because i see many accused of Fitnah without even understanding what it is. it is intentionally dividing the believers. those that are trying to get to the bottom of the simplicity of Islam and unify, restore and clear the fog, are not looking for division. the division is already there, it has been for centuries. so i wonder why those that want to pull down the walls are always accused of Fitnah. personally i dont care to claim Sunni, Sufi, Shia, Wahabi, or any other sect, since those are deliberately Fitnah. if they took the time to make a specific name for themselves, then they understand they have set themselves apart, or divided themselves from the believers. there is inherent division between believers by doing this.

even if the 5 pillars is a myth, is there not even any Qur'anic basis for any of the practices? and if so can they be simplified and clarified? if they do have Qur'anic basis, but not quite the same format as is accepted widely by this group or that group, then how do we get them into correct format?

also, assuming once they are in correct format, wouldn't they still convey the same ideas? the aim is not to fit into a sect but to find out how the application of practicing them would apply to the philosophy within Islam. not to compel someone to do anything.

i will agree there are a lot of additions to these ideas, and that some of them have grown so far beyond what Muhammad would have done it is a wonder some people even complete all the "required" tasks of the Hajj. but nevertheless, the sheer number of people there is a testament to the power of Allah, and it begs ask the question: if that many people can get together in one place for a huge list of rituals, why cant they come together to strive for justice as commanded by Allah? if that many people can go through several silly rituals that have been added over the centuries, then why is it so hard to reach out in the community and give support where it is needed? if they can have the willpower under duress to race through the causeways of Mecca to complete all the tasks on a laundry list of duties, then isn't the true way of Allah less burdensome when it is done with the heart of self discipline?

my hope in posting this was not to raise dissent about the silliness of Sunnah, but to find the core Qur'anic principles and stick to those. so what is the solution. we can talk about the problems all day long, but if there is no solution then we just become a bunch of griping squabbling simpletons.

19

Submitters / Code 19 / Re: mathematical code

« on: February 18, 2011, 07:39:02 PM »

infatuation is one thing, discovery is another. to discover something interesting is fine. to see if it holds up is another, but to try and make anything fit this as a standard is ridiculous, i agree. its not a game its just an observation of what is already there. whether it is acknowledging the fact that the Qur'an mentioned the correct developmental stages of a fetus, or that there are multiples of a given number it should all point back to the creator. once it diverges from that path it becomes a point of contention.

so not only is it wrong to become infatuated with a number, but it is also wrong to play games with numbers to create for ones self the same type of results and imitate prophet-hood. just as it was wrong for Kabbalists who use numbers as a formula for taking on the mantle of creator, and assuming they can even come close to the status of Allah. these numbers were never meant to be used like a spell, they were simply meant to be evidence pointing to Allah.

the reason for bringing up the golden mean was to prove that there are other numbers that are just as significant as 19. we may not grasp their full meaning, but there is a definite structure to all things authored and established by the creator. these clues are physical proof of this and help us go beyond the realm of faith into physical reality. it erases all doubt. while it may be that one has stronger faith by believing without seeing, Allah shows us that we dont need to follow blindly, he makes the way clear. if anyone doubts beyond knowledge of these truths, then there is really no hope for them if they still choose to doubt.

the golden mean is not just used in paintings and architecture, but it is also noticed in the human body. although not as consistent, it is established that if a person exhibits the golden mean, it is usually accepted by most people that they are attractive, and people are not flat either. the point of bringing up the golden mean is that it proves that Allah is all powerful. there is no way that it is just coincidence that the asteroid that landed in Mecca was by chance. it lies on the mathematical golden mean of the earth for a reason. Allah placed it there as physical proof. Allah is the ultimate architect and mathematician.

again it should always point back to the creator or there is no purpose in discovering any of these interesting things.

20

Submitters / Code 19 / Re: mathematical code

« on: February 18, 2011, 05:57:13 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD2323zkQUM

mecca lies on the golden mean of the earth. and that's not all there are golden means in paintings, the pyramids, and in the anatomy of every living creature.

and i'm tired of people claiming that Allah would not speak to anyone through mathematics. it is the universal language. you cannot fake math, it either is or is not. Allah speaks through any way he wishes to speak. if he is the creator of mathematics then he will speak through math as well. a mathematician may come to Allah in this way, so who is anyone to judge the relevancy of math in religion? or science? or any other thing?

yes the Qur'an is a guide, an operators manual if you will for humanity, but it also is a communication from the creator to the created. and Allah has provided us with clues to verify that this is actually from him. try the same thing with any other book, lets say, Dr. Seuss, and it wont hold water. but with uncorrupted scriptures, we find it is true.

so while it may not have anything to do with day to day life, it is relevant if it brings someone to Allah. then they can begin to explore the Qur'an in its entirety and apply it to their lives.

after all is this not what we all want for people? to see the truth and get closer to their creator? to better their lives? their communities?

i dont see any harm in finding out the secrets of the Qur'an as long as we dont start erecting statues to 19 or any other number in reality or in our minds.

Oh maaaan you guys are a bit out of the way of Allah ,  Allah teach us a way of life , not numbers,  numbers are works of mathematiciens, for the benefit of knowlege , so we can build cars and all, but the quran is guidance

Plus , the majors mistake 19ers make in number is from the start ,  they say 19  is 1 and 9 ,  are we dumb to make us believe something like this? or you lie to yourselves? don't you see that manipulation starts from the first number of your doctrine ?  19  is  10 and 9 ,  it's not 1 and 9  ,  you can also say  18 and 1   or 8 and 11 ,  but 1 and 9 is WRONG to start with

the idea of breaking down numbers into their primary form is in numerology, therefore you dont see 19 as 19 but as 1 and 9, also you can add them and make 10, but since there is no zero in numerology (it has no real value) then it is 1. God is one.

this was studied extensively in Jewish circles and ended up being corrupted into Kabballah, where the adherents focus on the numbers as sort of a hocus pocus and forget the message of the creator.

as long as we dont do the same, then we are not guilty of leading anyone astray. there is nothing wrong with finding out what secrets lie in the Qur'an as long as the secrets themselves are not deified.