Messages

3881

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 17, 2004, 09:51:33 AM »

Salam brother Ayman,

Let me ask you a question, we know that the malaika is a status given to beings, not a being unto themselves...therefore when God says that He created the jinn and man, not but to serve Him and the jinn race was created from before, thus we have the jinn as malaika at the time of adams creation...so this effectively does away with the malaika as a seperate race from jinn and man...as we have no mention of the malaika's nature, therefore nothing to say that they are a seperate race...

Do you agree, or is there something that i haven't seen/understood yet?? (pun unintended )

Peace

Nadia

3882

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Order/Sucession of Prophets/Messengers

« on: June 17, 2004, 07:29:59 AM »

Salam

I am only asking this question to illustrate the nonsense that can arise by ignoring a clear statement like 21:7 that categorically states none except MEN were inspired, together with the examples of male prophets/messengers that are harmonious with this verse.

012.109
YUSUFALI: Nor did We send before thee (as messengers) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will ye not then understand?

Does this mean only men were prophets before muhammad? Or only men as messengers thus prophets in certain cases?

If there is a seal on the last prophet, then is there a seal on the messengers as well?

We have to understand that women in societies before the world/society globally has evolved to this point, have been traditionally kept away from the affairs of the world/men...there are valid reasons for this, so being a prophet would have involved being a man as that would be the way to get the men of the world to seriously listen to what was being said as societies have been very sexist in the past, whose examples are still apparent...

If the world/society is changing, and there is no seal on the messengers, what would exclude a woman from being one?? Especially in a community which grants equal rights to the women?

In my opinion, there is no bar, and if it makes sense to send a women messenger to a society, He can well do so, as He knows all the possible futures/paths one can take, only He can decide who is best suited to the task.

Nadia.[/quote]

3883

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Those who believe in the 'Virgin Birth'

« on: June 17, 2004, 06:41:57 AM »

Salam

They are replicas. The original hosts are the products of sperm and egg. The replicas genetic makeup is that of the former whose genetic makeup is the result of sperm and egg.

Were these replicas alive in all senses of the word? If so, then God granted them life...so what if it's a replica? Why would God need to break the laws when we don't know all the laws as they are in their multitude of forms and processes anyway? This is an example right in front of us...

Nadia

3884

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Order/Sucession of Prophets/Messengers

« on: June 17, 2004, 06:30:15 AM »

Salam

What about the messengers that God has not told us about? Could they be women? Is there anything that excludes women from being messengers?

004.164
YUSUFALI: Of some messengers We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-

Nadia

*edited to include the verse*

3885

General Issues / Questions / taking statements as absolute and to their extreme...

« on: June 17, 2004, 06:23:26 AM »

Salam Kyle...

Are you saying twix is out??

Nadia

3886

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 17, 2004, 06:10:46 AM »

Peace

Right then, so we have a gender neutral address of a group of 2 or more, so this would mean that this gender neutral group has numbers of more than one, does not include a different 'species/race' then does it?

And looking at the verses, i see that you is not used in the 18:50...it says the malaika right??

 
can you point me towards a verse that has antouma in it?
As it's very confusing...

thank you in advance...

3887

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Those who believe in the 'Virgin Birth'

« on: June 16, 2004, 10:38:32 PM »

salam all

I think cloning as a science has just started...genetic shuffling has just started, with time our perceptions and knowledge will improve...but the only thing here is, God can give life wheras no one else can...thus all the processes involved in giving life are perfected by God and can even appear in genetically modified/cloned animals, if God so wills...thus God shows the examples...

Awesome verse!!

Peace

Nadia

3888

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 16, 2004, 10:25:26 PM »

Salam

Good point as i'm not aware of dual address can you give me the arabic please? Like the difference in dual and singular address? Is this gender specific address as i remember reading something of the sort, and if it is also gender specific, does that mean the entities involved, the malaika and the jinn(unseen) would both have genders? Can we then differentiate between the genders of said entities even?

And another thing, if it is addressing an audience of dual entities, why are only the malaika mentioned in the address? I don't right now see the relevance of the two gardens etc...as i would be concerned specifically how the address includes dual entities..

the thing i'm talking about is the law of taqleeb, which you can look up as well...it's mostly gender address etc, but is entirely manmade by 'ulema' as i read about it and the history...don't know much about it and would like others to help in understanding this issue...

3889

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 16, 2004, 10:05:46 PM »

Salam Dhul...

kay, lets start again now...hopefully we won't get sidetracked emotionally as that was the main element that distracted us from the issues...

I have no prior preconceptions...the malaika can be goody goody or they can rebel...i see it fine either way...

The reason why i think that iblis is part of the malaika is because of the ayats that address the malaika and iblis is included...the most important thing about this statement to me is the address...if other entities were involved, then it would be different and the address would be different...we see this in several ayats i think, this address only to the malaika....

Now, i will not go further with anything else because i honestly don't know, i have ideas that fit the facts present, but first we must overcome this first step, to decide for sure once and for all if iblis was a malaika...

The reason why i'm using the definitions instead of proper names is due to brother ayman's suggestion to see if all of us can get to the truth better...

Believe me dhul, i'm in it just like you are and want the truth (shades of x-files) so lets start with everyone involved and try to work out what on earth or heaven iblis was...

Peace

3890

TRASH / Let's COMPETE in NONSENSE production

« on: June 16, 2004, 07:54:36 PM »

Salam Edip

You are welcome...i was just an impartial observer...trying to get people to talk about the issues which invariably get lost while trying to project a better front than the other...

Peace

Nadia.