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3831

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 24, 2004, 09:48:07 PM »

Salam Dhul

[3:83]
Line:376
Afaghayra deeni Allahi yabghoonawalahu aslama man fee alssamawati waal-arditawAAan wakarhan wa-ilayhi yurjaAAoona

003.083
YUSUFALI: Do they seek for other than the Religion of Allah?-while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (Accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.
 
PICKTHAL: Seek they other than the religion of Allah, when unto Him submitteth whosoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and unto Him they will be returned.

SHAKIR: Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek (to follow), and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned.

KHALIFA: Are they seeking other than GOD's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?

Since you did not read my last post with the verses...here it is again..

Maybe you will be able to explain what the willingly and unwillingly means?? When every creature in the heavens and earth have willingly or unwillingly submitted to God?? Will you explain this as a contradiction as well?? Do all the creatures go to heaven?? After all, they all have submitted to Him??

3832

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 24, 2004, 09:06:40 PM »

Nevertheless to cut the long story short YES! I would be delighted and as a matter of fact I would ooze from the ears and the nose in ecstasy to knowwhat you actually meant when you quoted all those verses.

With that attitude, you'd be real lucky if anyone ever answered back...if long posts do not bore you, as i recall they did with the movement1's post, then...a suggestion, please read the posts before to see the context. I don't feel any need to summarize for people that quite obviously don't care...Thank you...

3833

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 24, 2004, 08:23:12 PM »

To The Mods

Please notice who has been using personal comments once again after the reminder...this discussion should be on the issues not useless stuff that have no relevance to the topic except to intimidate and aggress...

There is something very wrong with you. Can you read with any comprehension?
I know, out of your hurt feelings of abject defeat and desperation that, you would like to build up another fictious arguement in order to buoy your lifeless and un-Qur'anic notions, however, it will not work. Remember, we you leave this forum for the night and put you head down to go to sleep, you will reflect that you have no arguement and feel awful that you cannot admit it, yet, Allah, knows your heart...sleep is difficult for people lke this.

3834

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 24, 2004, 07:43:02 PM »

Salam Dhul

I've had enough bantering with you, since you seem a bit strange when you wrote back...please let's keep this impersonal...and answer one simple question....

All the ayats where the malaika were told to prostrate, why was iblis included...no conjecturing, no God must have meant him too...give me hard convincing evidence why iblis was included with the malaika...

Lets keep it to one question at a time...answer the question above.

*edited to correct*

3835

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 24, 2004, 07:39:26 PM »

I am  with the lengthy quotes you made above starting with ...Quote:
[YA]: Knowest thou not that to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Him ye have neither patron nor helper.  


When I was doing a stint in the Far east Asia some years ago,I was invited to witness an exorcism ceremony and a young lady the subject of my story apparently was under the influence of some sort of spell or voodoo.She was incoherent in her speeches and her modesty became outrageous as the night went by.A bomoh(witch doctor) came by and without further adieu uttered some incantations and clearly I could understand he was reading from the quran "Soorah Yarsin" as the folks called it or the 36th Chapter Ya-Seen.I was dumbfounded to think that even pagans as they appear to me would resort to the quran and its verses in hope of purging evil spirits.
It would also appear to me that your comments above as an argument would seem to have that nostalgia and it relived the memories I had of that day.
Cheers.

The long quotes are not quotes but ayats...if you feel you cannot understand why i posted them please ask, instead of bringing in strange bits of memories to the forefront, which don't really have anything to do with the discussion at hand...

As if you don't have anything substantial to contribute to the topic in discussion, maybe just reading the thread is better...Read brother Wakas's advice, and lets keep irrelevant stuff out of this...thanks.

3836

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 24, 2004, 03:57:25 PM »

Salam Brother

Thank you for the reminder...

Peace

Nadia

3837

Questions/Comments on the Quran / WHY IBLIS CANNOT BE AN ANGEL...

« on: June 24, 2004, 03:18:39 PM »

Salam Dhul

Funny when harping on about taqleeb, if you had used your head/commonsense/intellect you could see that it is completely useless...but no, you had to bring it in...why? Maybe because you were running out of ideas...

Discussing with you is not a discussion or an honest exchange of ideas it's accept i'm right or you are commiting shirk...and if you don't accept i'm right then you are wrong...and you are commiting shirk

You have already made up your mind what you think, and no amount of sincere and honest discussion on the parts of other people will make a difference to you as anyone can see in this argument, not discussion...it's hopeless and pointless, and not to say the least in bad taste, as your above remarks to me clearly indicate...real bad taste. Maybe you need a lesson in manners as you clearly don't know how to talk, let alone try to make fun of anyone in a decent manner.

Therefore, i'm going to leave you with a few verses to ponder on (which i am sure you won't)...

[2:107]
Line:114
Alam taAAlam anna Allaha lahu mulkualssamawati waal-ardi wamalakum min dooni Allahi min waliyyin wala naseerin
 
[YA]: Knowest thou not that to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth? And besides Him ye have neither patron nor helper.

[RK]:Do you not recognize the fact that GOD possesses the kingship of the heavens and the earth; that you have none besides GOD as your Lord and Master?

[2:116]
Line:123
Waqaloo itakhatha Allahuwaladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawatiwaal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona
 
 [YA]: They say: "Allah hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.

[RK]:They said, "GOD has begotten a son!" Be He glorified; never! To Him belongs everything in the heavens and the earth; all are subservient to Him.
 
 [2:255]
Line:262
 Allahu la ilaha illahuwa alhayyu alqayyoomu la ta/khuthuhusinatun wala nawmun lahu ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi man tha allatheeyashfaAAu AAindahu illa bi-ithnihi yaAAlamu mabayna aydeehim wama khalfahum wala yuheetoonabishay-in min AAilmihi illa bima shaawasiAAa kursiyyuhu alssamawati waal-ardawala yaooduhu hifthuhumawahuwa alAAaliyyu alAAatheemu
 
 [YA]: Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).

[RK]:GOD: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great.
 
[2:255]
Line:262
 Allahu la ilaha illahuwa alhayyu alqayyoomu la ta/khuthuhusinatun wala nawmun lahu ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi man tha allatheeyashfaAAu AAindahu illa bi-ithnihi yaAAlamu mabayna aydeehim wama khalfahum wala yuheetoonabishay-in min AAilmihi illa bima shaawasiAAa kursiyyuhu alssamawati waal-ardawala yaooduhu hifthuhumawahuwa alAAaliyyu alAAatheemu
 
 [YA]: Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).

[RK]:GOD: there is no other god besides Him, the Living, the Eternal. Never a moment of unawareness or slumber overtakes Him. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. Who could intercede with Him, except in accordance with His will? He knows their past, and their future. No one attains any knowledge, except as He wills. His dominion encompasses the heavens and the earth, and ruling them never burdens Him. He is the Most High, the Great.
 
[2:284]
Line:291
 Lillahi ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi wa-in tubdoo ma feeanfusikum aw tukhfoohu yuhasibkum bihi Allahufayaghfiru liman yashao wayuAAaththibu man yashaowaAllahu AAala kulli shay-in qadeerun
 
 [YA]: To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. Whether ye show what is in your minds or conceal it, Allah Calleth you to account for it. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and punisheth whom He pleaseth, for Allah hath power over all things.

[RK]:To GOD belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. Whether you declare your innermost thoughts, or keep them hidden, GOD holds you responsible for them. He forgives whomever He wills, and punishes whomever He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.
 
[3:29]
Line:322
 Qul in tukhfoo ma fee sudoorikumaw tubdoohu yaAAlamhu Allahu wayaAAlamu ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi waAllahu AAalakulli shay-in qadeerun
 
 [YA]: Say: "Whether ye hide what is in your hearts or reveal it, Allah knows it all: He knows what is in the heavens, and what is on earth. And Allah has power over all things.

[RK]:Say, "Whether you conceal your innermost thought, or declare it, GOD is fully aware thereof." He is fully aware of everything in the heavens and the earth. GOD is Omnipotent.
 

[3:83]
Line:376
 Afaghayra deeni Allahi yabghoonawalahu aslama man fee alssamawati waal-arditawAAan wakarhan wa-ilayhi yurjaAAoona
 
 [YA]: Do they seek for other than the Religion of Allah?-while all creatures in the heavens and on earth have, willing or unwilling, bowed to His Will (Accepted Islam), and to Him shall they all be brought back.

[RK]:Are they seeking other than GOD's religion, when everything in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly and unwillingly, and to Him they will be returned?

[3:109]
Line:402
 Walillahi ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi wa-ila AllahiturjaAAu al-omooru
 
 [YA]: To Allah belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: To Him do all questions go back (for decision).

[RK]:To GOD belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth, and all matters are controlled by GOD.
 
[3:129]
Line:422
 Walillahi ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi yaghfiru liman yashaowayuAAaththibu man yashao waAllahughafoorun raheemun
 
 [YA]: To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth and punisheth whom He pleaseth; but Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[RK]:To GOD belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. He forgives whomever He wills, and punishes whomever He wills. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
 
[3:189]
Line:482
 Walillahi mulku alssamawatiwaal-ardi waAllahu AAala kullishay-in qadeerun
 
 [YA]: To Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth; and Allah hath power over all things.

[RK]:To GOD belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. GOD is Omnipotent.
 
[4:126]
Line:619
Walillahi ma fee alssamawatiwama fee al-ardi wakana Allahubikulli shay-in muheetan
 
 [YA]: But to Allah belong all things in the heavens and on earth: And He it is that Encompasseth all things.

[RK]:To GOD belongs everything in the heavens and the earth. GOD is in full control of all things.
 


Let me think what your response is going to be...hmmm, a few nasty jibes and then what's your point (maybe another few nasty jibes) and then resolve the contradiction damn you (followed by some more nasty jibes)...

You appear to be a follower and not a leader, that's why you need everything spoon fed to you...that's why you refer everyone to aidid's book like someone pointed out on the other thread..is aidid your bukhari??Do you need him to explain the quran?? Just like you need metaphors and references of elemental facets present in man...a totally pagan concept to explain the quran and your theory of all jinn are men!! Behold!!

Maybe you'll surprise me?? I really don't think so....enjoy reading the verses and try to think this time will you??

3838

Marriage & Divorce / Multiple Marriages...

« on: June 24, 2004, 01:17:37 PM »

Salam brother

I found this off the site (free minds) while searching for the orphan thingy...i should just pick up lane but i'm at the pc right now and i'll have to get up... So let me cut and paste this here, and you can tell me what you think??

Analysis of verse 4:3

4:3 "Wa-in khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama": If you can't do justice to the orphans. This part of the verse is crucial and has been consistently ignored by all interpreters. "Doing the orphans justice" (male and female orphans) is about caring for them, maintaining them and looking after their inheritance. 4:3 " fainkihoo": " This has always been taken to mean "Marry" in the imperative form but I will show that this meaning is invalid. The meaning must be "Marry off". 4:3?" ma taba lakum": This is taken as: "who has become good to you" or "who are lawful to you" or "of your choice". I shall prove that these interpretations are against the Quran and create contradiction. The women in question are fully qualified from the Quran and do not need an additional attribute. The Quran is its own dictionary. Please note that the verb "taba" is in the past tense as is in 4:4 (fa-in tibna lakum AAan shay-in minhu nafsan) though there is a subtle difference. In 4:4, these women are giving a part of what they are entitled to "sadduqqatihina" of their own accord -God willing, I shall tackle the word "sadduqqatihina" when analysing 4:4 to show that it is not dowers-. In 4:3, they are also giving something but not physical: They are giving their consent to a proposal or the idea of marriage. I rendered " ma taba lakum" to "who have agreed with you". It could also be rendered as "who happily have consented with you" (about being married off). 4:3?" mina alnnisa-i": "from the women", the only women mentioned in this verse, the verse before (4:2) and the subsequent three verses (4:3-6) are women belonging to the category of orphans. This is a unique group of women, therefore most common translations of the phrase " ma taba lakum" was wrong because they did not pick up an important link between verse 4:3 and 4:4 as well as other verses. 4:3?"Mathna wa thulatha wa rubaa"  (also used in 35:1) means: by two, by three and by four (In other words in groups of two, three or four, this meaning therefore has been ignored because it does not fit easily with what traditional interpretations want to find), It is sure this does not mean two three and four because two, three and four in Arabic are: ithnaan, thalatha and arbaa' and not mathna, thulatha and rubaa. One must accept that nobody marries two three or four wives at the same time! But that's exactly what it means if we take "ankuhu" as Marry instead of Marry off. Please also note here there is no mention of "lawful to you" (Muhamed Asad) or marry the mothers of the orphans (Rashad Khalifa)!

And the rest here...

http://www.free-minds.org/polygamy.htm

I must say, i haven't read that before...it's very interesting...

3839

Marriage & Divorce / Multiple Marriages...

« on: June 24, 2004, 01:05:45 PM »

Salam brother

Is this definition classical arabic?? Fatherless children?? Or can this definition include young women who do not have a father to support them and can't support themselves??

Thanks in advance

Nadia

3840

Marriage & Divorce / Multiple Marriages...

« on: June 24, 2004, 12:43:51 PM »

Salam brother

Could it mean to marry the orphans off?? In twos, threes and fours?? The orphans in our care, or under our supervision...because where i come from, some parts are quite feudal, under the supervision of certain heads of the family and quite a lot of people come under that head...people having great amounts of problems, no money, no future, and severely dependent on the state/head of tribe etc or basically just destitute...and a whole lotta orphans...

So could it be to marry these orphan women off, to fit men?? That's why, it might be in groups to avoid the costs and all other problems and in one fell swoop, try to do as much good as possible?? And if we can't find any suitable person, then just try to restrict the marrying to close dependents, and wait until things are suitable for the rest??

What do you think?? I'm working on some other roots right now, so will get to this soon...

Peace

Nadia