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Messages - uq

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11
Yes may God reward you for your effort.

I don't think I would have come up with the idea, so good work.

Tried creating an account but I don't think he likes me. Kept returning an error.

Not sure what to do.

12
Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: The Forgery of Significations
« on: April 01, 2013, 02:19:19 PM »
Peace,

Alif is the first letter of the Arabic alphabet, Lām, the 23rd, and Mīm, the 24th.

Or, according to the Abjad order, the first, the 12th, and the 14th, respectively.

They bear no intrinsic meaning.

If the allusion is to 2:1, we will note that the letters do not occur as part of a sentence, they are listed, as three distinct letters.

They stand for whatever the Author intended of them.

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: The Forgery of Significations
« on: April 01, 2013, 05:06:02 AM »
Yes.

Despite any flaws, I think they relay the intended meaning quite sufficiently.

And, as I make the argument above, it would behove us to make use of them.

14
Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: 31:10 Invisible Pillars?
« on: March 31, 2013, 07:56:31 PM »
Peace jtc,

There are 2 grammatical possibilities for the first statement of 31:10.

1.   "He created the samawat without pillars that you see."

2.   "He created the samawat, you see it (the samawat) without any pillars."

There is a third possibility albeit convoluted and pedantic, I will not recount it here.

15
Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: The Forgery of Significations
« on: March 31, 2013, 06:09:45 PM »
Peace all,

Do I accept dictionaries as a source of reference to understand the Quran?

Yes, invariably.

I have not the authority to refer to anything else.

Languages are not forged, they naturally evolve.

The greatest lie can be told in any language in the world, but that lie will still be told using the rules and vocabulary of the language itself.

Languages are not forged.

Granted, over the course of two centuries or so, Quranic Arabic would have mutated.

That is until an explosion of Arabic literature came about in the 8th century from which very satisfying corpora can be derived; paying special regard to the early grammarians and lexicographers.

And even still, in the space of two centuries, because the Quran was preserved in text, there would not have occurred a substantial shift in the written language; not least one which would warrant the people of today to indulge in the forgery of significations to compensate for the hypothesized loss.

On a few occasions, the Quran describes itself as an “Arabic Quran.” Am I therefore to understand its text in anything other than the language in which it was revealed?

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: The Forgery of Significations
« on: March 30, 2013, 02:58:22 PM »
Peace Wakas,

Yes, I agree.

I think that in most of those cases, the argument doesn't add up, neither by Quranic cross-reference, nor by Classical Arabic syntax/vocab.

I only grant the plasticity of significations where there is a sizeable body of Quranic or syntactical evidence to support it.

Otherwise, I find the practice of the intentional forgery of significations, by a person who is sane and educated, tantamount to telling lies about God.

"For whom is more unjust than the one who has invented lies about God?"

God save us from error.

17
Peace jtc, Peace Mazhar,

Mazhar gives a beautifully poetic rendition of 51:1-4.

Truth is, angels are not given any mention at all. The reference to angels has been assumed by traditional exegeses, and the idea seems to have caught on.

Personally, I think it could very well be a reference to angels as the servants of God. Or, perhaps it could be a reference to the natural laws which govern the subjects spoken about in the above verses, and in similar other verses.

18
Questions/Comments on the Quran / The Forgery of Significations
« on: March 28, 2013, 01:40:44 PM »
Peace,

As humans, we are unique amongst earthly creatures in our capacity to speak. The formulation of statements from a number of independent sounds proceeding from our mouths to express an idea conceived in the mind can only be described as miraculous.

These sounds are expressed by humans in reference to objects, or ideas, or events. These sounds only acquire meaning by the repetitive appellation of those sounds to the same objects, or ideas, or events.

We call these sounds “words.”

A listener will have to hear these words in use by people enough times, and in as many different situations, from which he can derive a firm idea of their meaning. I say “listener,” because language proceeds primarily from speech, secondarily from writing.

In human history, dictionaries are a relatively modern invention, which list the entire set of words that constitute any given language. They are particularly useful to foreign students of a given language if they haven’t had any first-hand experience with the people of that language. Indeed, their use, along with the rules of grammar, is a prerequisite for the correct understanding of that language.

In the science of linguistics, “words” are usually referred to as “signifiers,” and “meanings” are usually referred to as “significations.”

Now comes my question, upon being presented with a text whose signifiers are, for the most part, unknown to the reader, would it behove that reader, in the objective pursuit of truth, to employ significations in the understanding of that text as were employed by those people who authored that text?

Or, would it behove that reader to forge significations of those signifiers as accords with his own personal fancies in order to acquire the intended significations of those people who authored that text?

I would argue the prior to be behoving.

The very fact that you, the reader, are reading this post and understanding it, is proof enough of my argument. The fact that you, the reader, are not seeking to invent new meanings for these words that I am using to write this post, proves that we must understand language as it exists at the time of its currency.

Brothers and sisters, we are not at liberty to invent meanings for words.

I have heard the arguments that zinā does not mean fornication, and that nisā’ does not mean women, and that salāh does not mean prayer. These arguments, in my view, are invalid. I will say the following about these arguments:

1. I accept that the meanings of words are liable to mutate. That is a most natural phenomenon of human speech, undoubtedly. However, we must use the Quran’s Arabic, from the Quran's time, to understand the Quran, not any other dialect or language. Example: at one point in history, the signifier “man” referred to any human being, male, or female. Later, around 1000 years ago, it became exclusive to males.

2. I also accept that the Quran uses old words in new ways to introduce new concepts, or perhaps to modify existing concepts; but this can only occur to such an extent that the new concept can still relate to its original signification. Example: “shirk” originally meant “apportionment.” However, the Quran uses it in such a way that it can lead us to understand the signification as “polytheism/idolisation.”

Naturally, all the above is just as applicable to syntax.

I truly apologise and seek pardon for the blatant rudimentary nature of my statements about language and its use, but the arguments that are in circulation in this forum, and, sadly, among other Quranists, with regard to the forgery of significations, are also invalid on such a rudimentary level.

For stress, we are not at liberty to invent meanings for Classical Arabic words to understand the Quran.

19
Two points:

1. As stated in another thread of a similarly contentious nature, I am strongly of the belief that if members of this forum were more grounded in the rules of the Classical Arabic language, this thread would not have run into 46 pages, and that our efforts would have been devoted elsewhere to more deserving issues.

2. There is not, and has never been, a signification of nisā’‎ in the Classical Arabic language other than "women."

There is not even a word of the same form and radicals with which one might mistake the two meanings.

The case for a Quran-specific meaning of nisā’‎ - other than "women" - does not exist.

This is due to the fact that the word is repeatedly treated as one which signifies a group of feminine sentient beings, as accords with the syntax of the Classical language.

For emphasis, there is not, and has never been, a signification of nisā’‎ in the Classical Arabic language other than "women."


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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Discussion on 4:3 and meaning of nisa
« on: December 03, 2012, 08:43:40 PM »
Examples of plural nouns being derived from other forms or roots than their corresponding singular form:

1. مَنَاجِذُ from خُلْدٌ (a mole)
2. شَوِيٌّ from شَاةٌ (a goat)
3. أَمْوَاهٌ from مَاءٌ (water)
4. نِسَاءٌ from اِمْرَأَةٌ (a woman)

These are but a few examples.

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