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Messages - Bender

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: undisputed facts about Quran
« on: May 21, 2016, 10:24:34 AM »
i did not say its the first one , i said its the oldest one till date. may be we will find more older than this one in near future, before five years ago who was aware about it.
What I wanted to say is that maybe the first one was 2000 or 3000 years ago, we can not say anything about the first one by a found copy.

netherland why you are going so far, some years ago research happened here about jesus christ, moses, noah , but they did not find anything apart from bibilical stories ,
I live there.

BLUE: And this has not to be neglected. Why can't we find outside sources?
btw the strange thing is that the "oldest" one (Noah) has more external sources than the younger ones. Everywhere in the world there are some legends and myths about an event which has great similarities with Noah's story.

its not my headache as i told you bible may contain words of God but also words of other sources, so the stories of bible must be match with quran its something normal and logical, but the stories should filter through quran , if its going agaisnt quran we should be careful.
Maybe it's not your headache, but for those who want to study the origin these kind of things have not to be neglected.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: undisputed facts about Quran
« on: May 21, 2016, 10:07:16 AM »
- Originally it was written by Human or group of humans somewhere in the middle east region.

This is a speculation.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: undisputed facts about Quran
« on: May 21, 2016, 10:04:00 AM »
but the oldest copy of quran which is in birmingham library right now indicated the dates with the the dates of hadith(history)

its muslims who write the earliest history records i can understand hadith are not reliable but all the histories have same reliablity whether it is by muslims jews christians hindus so in light of history and the oldest copies indicates the muhammad was there and the dates are alright . evidences are enough

but again the people who are claiming opposite of it they dnt have any evidence so far , i will not gona beleive on their theories untill it will come to me with proper resoning and proof or any historical evidence.



RED: The oldest found does not mean it was the first one.

BLUE: There was some years ago a study done in the Netherlands about Mohammed, they could not find anything besides the ahadith that indicates the existence of Mohammed. I mean thus sources besides the arab ahadith.

What I like to know is how Chapter 12 (Yusuf) end up in the bible it has not to be neglected similarities with the story in the quran.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: undisputed facts about Quran
« on: May 20, 2016, 04:19:35 PM »
apart from quran, all other books and scriptures may contain words of God and may contain words of pops, priest,rabbis,historians. and in different versions.

with quran its unique , the original language in which direct revelation recived is there since 1400 years atleast ,

people claiming here its been there since adam or some ar claiming since 4th century bc, but they dnt have any historical proof for this,

some people also think muhammad plagarised it or steal it , this evdence in the light of quran also hold no water,

i want some ideas of different people whats actually it is , and for the people who believe on reverse theories of quran where are their proofs or reasoning so that we all investigate it properly,


Te whole thing with the quran is that no one has some real evidence about it's origin.
Best "evidences" what we have are the hadiths and you know how reliable they are.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: undisputed facts about Quran
« on: May 20, 2016, 04:15:32 PM »
Another one I thought of was it is claimed to be the direct Word of God, unlike The Bible which is the inspired word of God compiled by multiple authors.
Only now I saw that you already had a similar point as mine, didn't read your whole post  :-[

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: undisputed facts about Quran
« on: May 19, 2016, 03:46:50 PM »
I was recently discussing the topic of undisputed (pretty much) facts about Quran that atheists/agnostics may find interesting, and it was suggested others might find this info helpful, so here is some of them.

If you have some to add, feel free.


- As far as I know no human being ever claimed to be its author
- No human (at least nowadays) knows how it came to existence (orally or in written form)
- No human understands it

Off-Topic / Re: The Movie Thread
« on: May 18, 2016, 02:46:34 PM »
Some very good movies I watched last couple of months

Zootopia - Genius, I think the personage of the fox is influenced by the maincharacters of Nine queens which was also a great movie
Inside out -  Genius
The Martian - I like survival movies
The Revenant - I like survival movies, "fight" with the bear deserves 10 oscars
Mad Max: Fury Road - A trip to insanity. The guy with the guitar on the truck is the man  O0
Creed - cool popcorn movie
Room - Left me speechless, heartwarming movie.
PK - a little bit to sweet but for sure a must see for every freeminder
The Boondock Saints - "old" movie, but just saw it recently for the first time. Insane movie, especially the character played by Willem Dafoe is epic.

Did you make the movie?

I do not think he will answer, he is inactive for a couple of years, but I also like to know this.
And of course interested if he is still looking for an actor, I know some real kung fu, watched literally every oldskool jackie chan movie at least 10 times.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Do you have certainty?
« on: May 18, 2016, 01:23:51 PM »
Peace Everyone,

Can anyone here say at this moment, they know for sure he/she is going to paradise?


It may sound strange but I have peace with every outcome, if it is hell then so be it, it means I was evil thus I deserve it. If it is heaven then  :yay:

No it doesn't....
(puts hand over face)Bender, you cannot make this claim when you are failing to explain HOW and when you are retracting your previous "valueless" interpretation. You are still in doubt about the meaning of all this. I honestly do not want you to haste with the Quran but don't make claims you cannot support just to oppose me because you dislike the understanding which is clear to me.

It is not about not agreeing you did not present an understanding that suffices logic, context, meaning of the root...on and on...
This is has nothing to do with language, I actually was under the impression you were an English native speaker.
You know what Bender, it is okay then there is no argument between us. The understanding has not reached you yet.
But that is also even more reason why you should not deny or ridicule me, because I am certain of it and Allah Guides the believers.

I do not dislike your understanding, I just think it not the best understanding, just like you think mine is not best, that's all.

And sorry if I ridiculed you in some way.

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