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Messages - Bender

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Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: 5:101
« on: August 21, 2014, 09:01:32 AM »
I'll try to explain, if someone says "your hands can't hit what my eyes can't see"'s like you can't see what you're doing and thus they can't hit. If you say "your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see"'s like the other party can't hit what they can't see. The latter is correct for the motivations of that quote and I suppose generally as well. Your version would mean that because you can't see, they won't be able to hit, which maketh no senseth unless you've got some special psychic powers that can cause the other party to unsee what you cannot see. Or because you're so fast you can't see what you're doing and believe the other party thus won't be able to as well...which has an inherent flaw in it mainly that of: you don't know what the other party can see or not.


RED: aaah thx!!! I get it now.

If I translate my version into Dutch it means: It is impossible for you (=Savage) to hit something without me (=Bender) noticing it. And that made perfectly sense to me.
So how would you write what I meant, using the words "hands" and "eyes" in 1 sentence.

Two leads, was talking about the male :P...we saw it in the cinema with a group of guys and girls when it came out, everyone liked it. Some stuff in it is more relevant to second generation desis, but overall it was a fun movie.

ok thx, it's on my to see list.

Hey, not a language purist by any stretch lol...While carries a meaning of during but used in a different way, that of two things happening at the same time e.g. While this conversation is taking place, I'm going to get myself a coke vs there can be no breaks during this conversation. At the moment carries a meaning of it being time based confined to the context of whatever that is: I find this conversation very confusing at the moment.


Here we have two languages, english and arabic if I may be allowed a capt obvious moment. The arabic word to word says "if you ask about it when is being revealed the quran it would be made clear to you"... off the top, it could fit while, it could fit during, but at the moment would be a tad more difficult for us to understand because we think it is an ongoing process of something else during which or while it's happening is when you can ask about it. This ongoing process of the revelation is what throws us off in a way. I mean we could say you can ask about it while it is raining. During the rain, you can ask about it. At the moment it rains you can ask about it...would mean we can start asking as soon as the first raindrop falls. In your view, we can start asking about it from that point onwards since we have permission to with no end date mentioned or inherent. I actually find that very interesting because the other ways we could take it would mean the window has closed. Unless of course we take the meaning of the revelation being a continuous process.

I think the difficulty is not in the word while/at the moment/during but the difficulty is that we have a wrong understanding what AlQuran means.


General Issues / Questions / Re: Rest in peace James Foley
« on: August 21, 2014, 07:32:56 AM »
It shows the true nature of the sectarians. 


No, it shows the nature of the one/those who did it.



Is it not possible that it might be referring to opposites??

Like: good and bad, above and below, land and water, sky and earth, likewise virus and cure [healthy cell]? :hmm

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path :pr


Not sure if opposites is the correct translation. Not sure yet what zawj means.
I have 3 at the moment 3 possible understandings in mind but not sure yet which one is correct, or maybe all of them incorrect:
- opposites (like black and white),
- counterparts (like king of country A and king of country B) ,
- complements (like husband and wife)



وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ


I stand corrected.
Thank you!!!


Ive found this web page related to the topic. Well, I was wondering...what about viruses?


I think this verse is misunderstood by many people. Many  people think it talks about creatures but it's not.

The verse says:
51:49 And of every thing/matter We created a pair, perhaps you may remember.
A thing/matter are not creatures (people/animals/virus/plants/fish/tree's etc).


Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: 5:101
« on: August 16, 2014, 01:42:10 PM »
Um, think you may have meant your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see lol but I'll take your version over mine any day!


RED: that's the original quote but I did not understand it. Seriously it did not make any sense to me if we take literally what it says, but maybe it's an expression I do not know. I think my version makes more sense. 

British movie with some punjabi's lol. The lead is total eye candy, so hell yes I'd recommend it.
the lead is male or female?
and is it a girls movie or also ok for  :muscle: males like me?
I'm kinda lost as to the discussion at the moment, I usually need a translator for Mazhar bhai, but I'll make a stabby attempt to understand what's going on.

Bender said: I think it should be read something like this: if you ask about them after/while/during the Qur'an has been sent down, it will be cleared for you the pardoning of Allah for them.
Mazhar disagreed with it and contested the one fell swoop aspect.
Bender said: I understand now that " حِينَ " means something like: at the moment. Not "after" and also not "while".
Mazhar thinks same difference.
Bender says no, there is a difference.
Mazhar says no way.

I think I may just have gotten the gist of it...maybe.

lol, nice summary.

i would tend to agree...I think.
good!!! Agree till you find something to falsify it or till you find something better.


Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: 5:101
« on: August 16, 2014, 01:31:56 PM »
"At the moment" is not relevant to the structure of the sentence in Ayah.

English grammar lessons:

While / As = During that Time

'While' and 'as' are used to describe actions that occur at the same moment that something is in progress. 'While' and 'as' are sometimes confused with the preposition 'during'. Both express the same idea, however, the structures are different. 'While' and 'as' are time expressions and take a subject and verb. 'During' is a preposition and is used with a noun or noun phrase.
Future: Use 'while' or 'as' to state something that occurs at the same moment that something else - the main focus of the sentence - important will occur.

The action in progress mentioned in the Ayah was the revelation of Qur'aan.


I am not sure if I understood exactly what you meant, maybe we mean the same but with different words.

For me "At the moment it rains" (=1) and "While it rains" (=2) are different expressions with a clear difference.
The starting point of action of 1 begins exactly at the same time the first raindrop falls.
The starting point of action of 2 can begin at every moment, not necessary at the first drop.
The second difference is that in 1 the rain can stop BUT it's not necessary that the action that started at the moment it began to rain also stops.
BUT for 2, the action can never occur outside the rain period.

Anyway this is how I understand the differene between "While" and "At the moment" but maybe I am confusing "While" with "During".
Savage please help me out here, you are the language purist here.


Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: 5:101
« on: August 14, 2014, 01:20:08 PM »

Okay, fine.


you mean you do not know the difference between "at the moment" and "while" ?


What is the nature of God? / Re: Transcendent or Immanent God?
« on: August 14, 2014, 01:18:52 PM »
If all is evidence of God, and we see "his" face wherever we look, this says more about the nature of creation and our relation to God, than it does about where God is "placed". The point is to see Allah's face and to know. The point is not to conclude the location of Allah, because that's just intellectual philosophy, at best.

Just an expansion of what you said.

I think you meant with "Allahs face" the quranic expression "wazjhu Allah".
Indeed everywhere where we look there is wazjhu Allah.
But it is very important for us to understand that "wazjhu Allah" is not Allah.
With other words what we see is NOT Allah but wazjhu Allah.
It is the same as rasulu Allah, rasulu Allah is a much Allah as wazjhu Allah is.
Who Allah is, is beyond us. Allah is The One who is beyond our utmost imagination.

I found your response appropriate, balanced and wise.
On the other hand, I found myself poorly expressed.

I think both of you have excellent posts  :yes


Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: 5:101
« on: August 14, 2014, 12:50:04 PM »
Who said تَسُؤْكُمْ is not a complete sentence? It is a complete verbal sentence as apodosis clause to the condition. It is verbal sentence, Verb + Subject + Object.


Mazhar said so in his translation.
"...which if disclosed for you, it would be embarrassing or troublesome for you people"

imo the same way " تَسُؤْكُمْ  " is related to what it's referring to, the same way has "  عَفَا اللَّـهُ عَنْهَا " to be related to what it's referring to.

Just a question, did you understand my post to Savage?


Do you find any difference:

at the moment

While: at or during same time

yes I think there is a big difference.


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