Messages

1

General Issues / Questions / Re: Gay Marriage Has Been Legalized in France

« on: Today at 09:29:08 AM »

I feel they (gays)have that freedom to do with their life as they want and God will do as he pleases with them, does not mean I don't like homosexuality, it destroyed my family.  But to just hate a group of ppl without any mercy, is something I fear God will judge me on. You can hate the act, but you can't oppress another, they will do what they want anyway. I have not seen a punishment in Quran for gays being death. I also think Lot had to do with gang raping of men and the fact they were heterosexual choosing to cause corruption in the land. Homosexuality has existed before Lot so it was not something new, from what I have studied.

Allahu Alam

Thanks for sharing your story.  Unfortunately, your story is not an isolated case. I know of similar stories.

It is not homosexuality per se that destroyed your family.   What destroyed the family are the actions of people.   The action of family members beating the gay out of your father who felt pressured to lie to himself and others.   Did your mom know that your dad was gay before she married him?  If she knew and yet married him then that is a mistake she made that resulted in pain.   If she didn't
know, then she was lied to by your father and his family who knowingly allowed the marriage to your mother take place.   The marriage was not based on honesty from the start.    Your father's infidelity caused pain.  If your father did not act on his homosexuality or at least had an open talk with your mom divorcing her first, would it have resulted in as much pain?  also, the man he was having an affair with was acting on his selfish desires not thinking about how his actions could cause pain to your mom, to you and others.   

The lies and deceit caused pain - not the homosexuality.   It is not fair to exclusively blame your dad and his sexuality.  Those who tried to beat the gay out of him and pressuring him to conform also need to take responsibility and accountability of the consequences of their actions that lead to so much pain to so many people.  If your father's sexuality was accepted or he was not pressured to conform, would it have resulted in what it did?   

Didn't your mom have a clue?  Did she not find something was amiss?  Usually there are warning signs or a sense that something is not right or doesn't feel right.  Often women tend to ignore these feelings, voices, etc not acting on them.  Did your mom confront her feelings if she did have them?  I know couples who felt totally blindsided by infidelity but the red flags were there and usually denial or refusal to see are strong defense mechanisms.   

Blaming others are also strong defense mechanisms.  In cases of homosexuality, we need to stop this blame game and confront the real problem at hand.  It is problem of nonacceptance for whatever the reasons - may it be religious or otherwise.   The problem of intolerance often all done in the name of God.   

it is one's own prejudices, selfishness, ego, arrogance and ignorance that result in pain.
 

2

General Issues / Questions / Re: Gay Marriage Has Been Legalized in France

« on: Today at 05:00:49 AM »

Please read the Forum Rules. If you can't contribute without being disrespectful or if the topic causes emotional upheaval...consider not posting. Further infractions will be taken seriously. Thanks.

With a topic like homosexuality, you cannot expect less than a heated discussion.   The language towards homosexuals is often offensive and abusive, but it is an attitude and belief held not just by majority Muslims but also Christians and Orthodox Jews.  By the way, in the United States, the Jewish leaders are credited for bringing about this change on gay marriages using the media as one medium. 

The sentiment "if you are not with us then you are against us" is prevalent throughout.   Ex if you are not hadith follower then you are not muslim.  If you don't support Israel then you are antisemitic.  Etc.  These attitudes are commonplace more than the exception.  The views and emotions expressed here on homosexuality is typical and is taking place in communities throughout United States. 

It would be a shame to suppress having a discourse on emotionally charged issues.   There are those who strongly  feel that homosexuality goes against Islam wanting to uphold the Quran and then there are those who don't.  And the debate will continue.   we need to have such debates/discussion.   This is how progress is made.

There have been cases where not only forum rules were in clear violation but the point of this forum came in question which the moderators did nothing or not much despite concerns and objections raised. And so, I am baffled....

3

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Which punishment do you feel is worse to have?

« on: Yesterday at 04:35:41 AM »

Peace,

"Zina" is rape (thus the harsh earthly, physical punishment as well as punishment in the hereafter, except if pardoned). "FaHaSha" and it's derivatives refers to adultery. The punishment for adultery, the crime that you mentioned above, is in detailed in 4:15. There is no pity clause, by the way.

Also, if the thief is found, usually many of the stolen items can be recovered. If not, you cut from their means.

I have also been troubled by the translation of 4:15.   

If zina is rape then why would God also say punish the victim in 24:2?  Says alzaniyatu walzani?  And "bihama" is translated as pity for them.  Also if zina is rape, why would anyone have pity for a rapist?   

I feel so overwhelmed.   

4

General Issues / Questions / Re: Harassment of Quran aloners for being kuffar

« on: Yesterday at 04:20:13 AM »

Salam brother. He lives in the UK in a ''ghetto'' full of sunni pakistanis and some afghanis as well. You know that UK is full of pakistanis and UK has a huge problem with sunni fundamentalism. Hizbut tahrir stands relatively strong in UK in sunni areas. I once spoke to a member of hizbut tahrir who openly told me that all quran aloners would be considered apostates and executed if khalifah is established (he thought I was a sunni like him as I didnt revealed my religiosity)

I have family who live in UK and have seen how over the years my uncle and his family have become more fundamental in their thinking and ways.  In i were in your friend's case, I would not move out of the area because of people behaving badly.

5

General Issues / Questions / Re: Gay Marriage Has Been Legalized in France

« on: Yesterday at 04:12:13 AM »

You clearly reject Quran just because you are trying to defend gays you know. People who made these translations are scholars of islam and ancient arabic language and who are you to say they are all wrong? Who are you man? 

There is no such a thing as traditional muslim and new age muslim, you are muslim or you are not.

Clearly, you believe in what you believe and no matter what evidence is brought forth, you will not hear.   God hears everything and will judge us accordingly. 

Although your post was directed to Emil, I will answer your question about who am I?   I am a person who seeks God to increase my knowledge and explanation of the Koran.   It is God who guides me and explains things - not scholars. 

6

General Issues / Questions / Re: Gay Marriage Has Been Legalized in France

« on: May 20, 2013, 07:34:51 PM »

PS:  my post is basically addressing people like sonny.

If you think that homosexuality is sick/satanic filth then you will discount any study that would suggest that some people are born homosexual.  and you will find "verses" in the scriptures to support your views.  I am sure people will find verses in the Koran justifying killing homosexuals.   

 From coming across homosexuals, I am not as certain as some here that homosexuality is a choice.  I grew up in India for the first 10 years of my life in the 70's.   One of the kids who I played with was different - the way he stood, talked and his manners.  Of course, other kids teased him calling him names.  He didn't come out and play with us much.  I didn't understand lot of things back then but I always remember him.

I now live in a small christian town in United States where homophobia is very prevalent. One of the pastors young teen is gay.  If homosexuality is a choice, why would any teenager "choose" to be ostracized by his family, his classmates, harassed, bullied, discriminated against, not accepted?  Why would teens and young adults choose to be homosexuals when they are surrounded by heterosexuals and finding a homosexual partner in the communities they live is next to impossible? 

Have you all who harbor such  hatred and anger towards homosexuals thought about that?   If homosexuality is a sickness, why would a teenager raised in good Christian family in town choose this kind of sickness?   

Do you all know that homosexuals are four times more to attempt suicide? 

I am sorry but I find hypocrites claiming that they worship God when what they worship is their hatred, arrogance, ego and ignorance.   If homosexuality is indeed a sin, have you thought about how you can help save a soul from hellfire?  Instead you would much rather call homosexuals satanic filth adding to the pain and suffering that these kids already feel as they are confused, lost and isolated.

 Because of how they are perceived, a lot of homosexuals don't talk about their sexuality and some go on getting married having heterosexual relationship struggling in silence.   You guys can't think about helping someone who is suffering and struggling? 

When I was a kid, I asked my mom why are there poor people?  Why would God create poor people?  What my mom said always stuck with me.   God tests us by how we treat and take care of people.   

If indeed God created some people gay, the greater test is on me.   I would rather help a kid struggling with his sexuality letting him know God is loving, caring, forgiving than make him feel worse about himself.   I would rather save a soul than lead a soul to kill himself.  If homosexuality is a choice, I would rather try to understand her choices and help make better choices.   

This is the Islam that i choose to follow.  so, no i do not follow your islam of hatred and abusive language.   

Let's not forget, God is also a member of this forum and everything we say and do is all being permanently recorded in God's tablet.   What matters at the end is what God has to say and we will all know of God's post at the end. 

7

General Issues / Questions / Re: Is being a Muslim conditional?

« on: May 20, 2013, 02:31:41 PM »

If being a muslim is conditional then no one would be a muslim. 

8

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Which punishment do you feel is worse to have?

« on: May 20, 2013, 02:27:54 PM »

May be the question to be asked is who would you have pity for? 

An abused woman in unhappy arranged loveless marriage to an arrogant vile abusive man who financially or for reasons cannot leave her husband finding comfort and love in the arms of another man who treats her like a human being.

Or

A professional thief who breaks into your house, ransacks your places, takes all that you have worked hard for and were given to you by family and friends.  In this economy you are barely making ends meet living paycheck to paycheck, putting food on the table and not much savings in left in the bank account.   The thief basically cleaned you out. 

9

General Issues / Questions / Re: Gay Marriage Has Been Legalized in France

« on: May 19, 2013, 09:52:29 PM »

Peace


Bottom line being gay is against gods creation
If everybody went gay the world would go extinct

This ish is stupid and shouldn't een be up for convo

Sorry if I'm Comin off harsh but, you know what's right and you know what's wrong

PERIOD


Peace

You are not planning on going gay - are you?  So why the need to worry about the world going extinct?

And how do you consider people who are born with both female and male characteristics like newform pointed out?   

Making statements/claims without supporting evidence and knowledge, putting down people saying very derogatory things - all go against God's commands.   

10

General Issues / Questions / Re: Gay Marriage Has Been Legalized in France

« on: May 19, 2013, 08:19:59 PM »

Peace

Lol , my state ment is backed up from what I've seen in communities
When you have a full grown man as your father, or other male role models you look up to to show you how to be a man it makes a big diffrence

& also I just love women, I've always loved women and I've never played the other side of the fence
Because that's how I was raised. TO LIKE FEMALES

IT'S NATURAL , it's just natural to me anyway, but everyone is diff

Like I said its wild to think that's cool cus it's not, but coo

Peace

Ok if as you say homosexuality is a choice and everyone is born heterosexual then why the need for father and why did your parents raise you to like females as wouldn't you naturally like females and not males?