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Messages - Layth

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I have made two files (one using "Education-Process" and its derivatives, one using "Communion" and its derivatives) (Education-Process) (Communion)


3.Capital or small might?

6:147 If they deny you, then say: “Your Lord has vast Mercy, but His
Might will not be turned away from the criminal people.”

I have made both those words "small" as they are not stated as direct attributes.

All other fixes made and uploaded.


Just to add some more thoughts to this discussion on Salat.

I stated that many of the words used for Salat fail in the different settings/context that the Quran uses (especially prayer).

The most problematic verse in most translations is 9:84 which causes a myriad of shifts in meanings and words:

9:84 And do not "Tusali" upon/for any of them who have died, nor stand at their grave. They have rejected God and His messenger and died while they were wicked.

If we use "pray/commune", then that forces the use of the same meaning for 33:56 & 33:43 where God and His angels "Yussalu" upon the prophet and the believers.

If we use "connect/link", then that creates a different problem as we are speaking about a dead person - no chance of linking or connecting there...

However, if we use the verb "educate" then we can see some form of teaching should be happening when a person dies, which, in this case, the prophet is commanded not to carry out said teaching for this particular group of people...

This is further confirmed by 5:106-108 where we see a "death Salat" being called for after a person has passed and the subject of his testimony/will is discussed and witnessed:

5:106 O you who believe, witnessing shall be done if death is approaching one of you and a will is being made-by two who are equitable amongst you. Or, by two who are unknown to you if you have gone forth in the land and death is approaching. If you have doubt regarding them, then you will hold them after carrying out the "Salat", and let them swear by God: "We will not purchase with it any price, even if it was from a near relative, and we will not conceal the testimony of God, else we are of the sinners."
5:107 If it is then found that they had indeed incurred the sin, then two others, from those who have been named as beneficiaries, will take their place; and they will swear by God: "Our testimony is more truthful than their testimony, and if we aggress, then we are of the wicked."
5:108 This is best as they are more likely to bring the testimony as intended, or face that their oaths would be disregarded as the previous oaths. And be aware of God, and listen; God does not guide the wicked people.



Thank you HP, Cerberus, and Mazhar,

I would like to make a statement on Arabic and root meanings. Not every word in the Quran is a proper or known word. Some are sounds "like ALM, ALR, etc.", and some are foreign "like Alrahman - which the Arab speakers could not understand its meaning (25:60).

Salat to my reading is such a word - a word that was created to describe an act and is not a descendant of SLW or YSL.

It is usage and context that give us the proper meaning of words in the Quran.


Just to add some words that also came to mind:



2:150 And  wherever  you  go  out,  you  shall  set  yourself  towards  the
restricted  temple.  And  wherever  you  may  be  you  shall  set
yourselves  towards  it;  that  the  people  will  have  no  room  for
debate with you, except those of them who are wicked. You shall
not be concerned by them, but be concerned by Me; so that I may
complete My blessings upon you and that you may be guided.

This is correct. The first part is singular (addressing the prophet), while the second part addresses all the believers.

Dear HP,

I welcome your comments and do read all opinions so as not to miss any information that may help us all.

The subject of Salat to my mind is not a linguistic one where we are trying to bring it in-line with a "root word" that may or may not even be its source, but is a bigger issue of "purpose" which is lost in many of these discussions. Let me clarify:

- Al-Salat has certain properties that, when done properly, will prohibit a person from immorality and vice (29:45)
- God gives Himself the same attribute as Al-Salat (prohibiting immorality and vice 16:90) 
- Salat can be "lost" (19:59)
- Salat needs focus and a sharp mind (4:43)
- Salat gives instructions/information (11:87)
- Salat is done in an audible voice
- Salat is done at certain fixed times, and in a congregation when possible

Just looking at the points above, you can easily discount a large number of words that people may believe are Salat ("prayer" as a meaning being the first one off the list).

Now, other words that do work are "Communion/Connection/Education/Learning/Lawgiving"

The second part of the picture is the many derivatives of Salat (Yusalai, Sala, Saloo, Salatak, Salatahum, etc.).

Here the words start tightening-up as some of the meanings which worked in the first part are no longer possible:

- "Connection/Communion" fail in 9:84 when someone has died.
- "Communion" fails in 33:56 when God and His angels "Yusaloon" upon the Prophet and the believers.

In summary, we are looking at a "process" through which laws are communicated/derived/learned. This is why I have suggested "Education-Process" and its derivatives "educate/education". However, I would also say that "Lawgiving/Law" and its derivatives could work.



Would leaving the words- Salat,salawat,yussalli...etc in english in the verses and put the meaning in brackets next to them be a better alternative?

Then the reader can see what the original Arabic word is .It can also highlight the issues this has with different translations.

The option of leaving the word "as is" was considered, but it was abandoned because it defeats the purpose of a "translation". The only words that have been left untranslated are proper names.


I hear what you are both saying, however, I am not able to find a better "word that fits all".

Only Al-Salat (proper noun) has been translated as "Education-Process", while its derivatives (Salat, Salawat, Yusali, Salai, etc.) have all been translated to "educate/education/educating". You can see the verses and how they now flow in the online translation.

Communion/Link/Prayer/etc. all work in some verses, but fail in others - forcing an illogical change of the word to suit the verse (lok at any existing translation for evidence of such difficulty).

The birds "know their education" (the word is salat), while Shuaib is accused of "being ordered by his education" (salatak), and God "educates" the Prophet (yusali), while the Prophet "educates" the believers and they "educate" him (yusaloon).

In no verse does anyone "Yusali" upon God (so the flow moves in one direction only).



I just wanted to add a small footnote to this topic which might help in providing some context to the functionality of Salat (education-process).

In the days before the industrial revolution, a village/town at most would have 5-6 written copies of the Quran and probably 10 or so people who had the Book memorized. Most people therefore don't have access to the words/laws in their homes and when they woke up, before heading off to the farms or market, they would attend an open recitation of the Quran where it's laws could be heard and contemplated. They would then go about their business, thinking of what they had heard that morning, and, around noon there is an opportunity to attend the Salat again,  and also in evening before they turned in, they could attend the Salat one last time to listen to some more words/laws that they could think about when they went home and before they slept.

This is how the laws and stories were transmitted and learned by the generations.

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