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Messages - Layth

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Thank you all for the input. I needed to translate the word else it is not really a translation of the Quran.

The final thought I have settled on is "education-process" and "educate/education" as its verb.

You can see it now in the PDF version online to get a feel of how the meaning flows in the various verses.

General Issues / Questions / Re: FM Quran Contact prayer to "Law-giving"
« on: September 26, 2016, 05:11:54 AM »

I am looking into this as I am not happy with law-giving.

Will revert in a couple of days as "learning-process" is most likely replacement.

Questions/Comments on the Quran / Re: Win or Defeat in Verse 30.02
« on: September 24, 2016, 12:54:29 AM »
Why you have stopped at 639,Imran

Because according to 30:4, the second incident happens "a few years" after the first. So, from a time-line, you are looking at events which should not be more than 10 years apart.

Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello all, this is my new home !
« on: September 15, 2016, 02:28:28 AM »
Salam and welcome brother to the family...

The path to God alone is full of pitfalls and tests which do not end except when our lives on this Earth end.

The movement started by Rashad Khalifa was a bold and brave action that helped propel many people to break the shackles of centuries of Hadith and false dogma. At the same time, it created a sect where followers elevated him to the status of an infallible man (replacing one idol for another).

I pray that we all here can keep to the path of the Almighty and that we remind each other when we have strayed - may the Lord help us live and die as Submitters.


firstly the area is around death sea which is nearest as well as ,as you have said lowest part of earth .both are correct
on the same location ,all the four  things happened
1.Romans defeated by Persians
2.Romans defeated Persians
3.Romans defeated Muslims
4.Muslims defeated Romans

I do not see why you have brought 4 events into play when the verses we are speaking about are only referring to 2 (the incident with Rome and its opposite).

The story of the Roman/Persian war is the common one spun out in explanation of the verses. But, as can be pointed out simply, this is a wrong reference as the believers are referred to as part of the conflict - not the pagans or people of the book. Also, the Roman-Persian war is a series of wars that lasted 26 years (602-628) and was fought in many places from Egypt to Turkey, so it cannot be described as 2 battles which is what the Quran is speaking of.

Going back to history, you would agree on the Battle of Mutah in 629 and that it was fought against Rome with the result of the Muslims being defeated? I also gather you would agree it was fought near the Dead Sea? If so, then we have part 1 of the verse matched with a historical context.

If we are looking for part 2 (the opposite event), I quoted the battle of Tabuk while clearly mentioning I have not seen any physical evidence for this. You have quoted the Battle of Yarmouk in 636 which is where the Muslims defeated the Romans (with physical evidence). I accept your quote as being the more accurate and therefore is the part 2 event which compliments part 1 and matches 100% the verses we are reading.


The translation is correct as it has used the context of the verses and not the narrative that people associate with the meanings.

Let me clarify:

1. When a word stands "out of context", then the only thing we can do is to dig back to the older manuscripts to verify its correctness;
2. However, in some words where the difference is in the dialectal marks and not the spelling (such as "GhAlabat" an GhUlibat") we have a problem as the older/original texts have no "dialectal marks";
3. In these cases, we are forced to look again at the "context" for the correct answer.

Now, in 30:2, you have an "incident" which occurred with the Romans (let's assume we don't know if it was a win or a loss).

In 30:3, it tells us that this "incident" occurred at a location which is the "lowest part of the earth" (adna alardh).

And, that after this "incident", its "opposite" will occur (30:3).

And that this "opposite incident" will occur in a "few years" from then (30:4).

An when this "opposite incident" occurs, the believers will rejoice (30:4)

And what the believers are rejoicing is a "victory" from God (30:5)

When you put the above context together, its is pretty straightforward:

- A battle with Rome takes place
- The battle occurs around the area of the Dead Sea
- Rome is victorious
- God promises the believers that after Rome's victory, they will be defeated - in a few years
- And that on that day the believers will rejoice with a victory from God.

Historical analysis (based on physical evidence of battle site and graves):

- Battle of Mu'tta which occurred between the Roman an Muslim armies at the area around the Dead Sea (town of Mu'tta in Jordan);
- Muslims lost badly, commanders killed, army retreats in defeat;

According to the history (not verified by physical evidence, but is in-line with the Quran's predictions), the Prophet a few years later led an army against Rome in the "Battle of Tabuk" upon which Rome was routed and defeated.

Pilgrimage (Hajj) / How Many Pilgrimages Each Year?
« on: September 13, 2016, 09:18:50 PM »

I would like to raise a question that perhaps some here can help me with.

In the Quran, we are told that the Pilgrimage is "known months" (2:197).

We also know that in the year, there are 4-months that are "restricted" (9:36).

We also know that the Pilgrimage kicks off the 4-restricted months (9:3).

We also know that the first Pilgrimage is called "the greater pilgrimage" (9:3)

We also know that the Pilgrimage is linked to the "crescent moon" (2:189).

Base on the above, I would assume that there could be 4 pilgrimages per year, or even 8 pilgrimages (noting that each lunar month has 2 crescent moons - one at the beginning an one at the end). However, what throws me off is the statement of Moses where he is made to promise to stay in Mediyan for "8 pilgrimages" but is then told "if you stay for 10, then it is you choice" (28:27) - why did they use a multiple of 2 when speaking about the pilgrimage?

My question: Is it 2 pilgrimages (the greater Hajj an the lesser Hajj) each year? Or is it 4 pilgrimages, or is it 8 pilgrimages?

Thank you. I will amend and upload the fixed file.


There are no arguments to win over a Sunni - otherwise they would no longer be Sunnis!

Best thing is to open-up about your faith, mention that you no longer accept the Hadith/Sunna as it is an innovation and that you will only follow the Book of God. Tell him that you understand it may be difficult for him to understand, but that you need to find peace with God and no soul can avail any other on the Day of Days...

One step at a time sister...


Why do you say garden when in the Quran it says Adam was in paradise. For example Surah 2:35

It says "Janna". Janna is a lush garden (a paradise).

We can see in 18:32-42 the example of the man who had a "Janna", but because he wronged himself, God made his "Janna" no longer attractive or green.

Also, I would remind that Adam was chosen to be on "Earth" as a Khalifa (2:30) - which the Angels objected to. Had Adam been in "Heaven" then it would defeat the entire purpose of choice God made, basically thinking that He put him and his wife in the wrong place, hoping that they would sin so that they could be expelled to "Earth"?!   

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