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Messages - Bender

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General Issues / Questions / Re: Kafirs
« on: February 12, 2016, 05:08:43 PM »
there's a verse in the quran that says they are equally unbelievers, the pagans, those who refuse faith preferring other than Abrahamic monotheism, I think a kafir is one who rejects faith. i'll believe in ALLAH but not the angels or i'll believe in the quran but none of the books before it. from context clues anyone who is not Abrahamic monotheist who reject the messege or signs of ALLAH even one or two of them.
did your read the verses that tell you who qualifies to be a kafir? with those context clues you can find out better maybe?


RED: Yes of course, they are always doing something bad/evil.
That's why I think if they always do bad/evil and if they are always promised hell then they must be evil ones. And thus that the word kfr must carry in itself evilness.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Kafirs
« on: February 12, 2016, 04:57:44 PM »

Till now I have had only alternatives to my interpretation of kafirs.
Of course I appreciate every alternative and every alternative should be examined, I also gave for some my objections.
But I have had 0 objections why "evil/bad" is not accurate.
I really like to hear some objections so that I can adjust/correct my interpretation to something more accurate.


General Issues / Questions / Re: Kafirs
« on: February 12, 2016, 04:50:05 PM »
Those who COVER / CONCEAL / HIDE / SUPPRESS (Thus it will not spread or others will not know) and deny our signs.

Denying is one thing, but trying to conceal the truth is much worse...

A murderer or corrupt religious leader will deny that he or she is guilty of murder or spreading illogical lies.. (obviously)

And naturally he or she will try to cover all possible evidence through the means of:
- Destroying evidence
- Spreading lies and propaganda
- Eliminating / killing witnesses
- Attacking those who dare to uncover his/her falsehood
- Trying to destroy the reputation or the life of those who dare to speak up against him / her.


How do we call the ones who murders and then publish the heads of the victims on social media.
He is not concealing anything, actually it more like he is proud of what he did and want to show the world what he is capable of.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Kafirs
« on: February 12, 2016, 04:44:34 PM »
CU: + those [individuals] who denied and belied our Signs ...


Ok thank you.
Here in this case you read it like "those who denied our signs" and this is now indeed a complete sentence and makes sense. Because here we get to know what they deny.
But in verses like 85:19 بَلِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا فِي تَكْذِيبٍ we have no information about what they deny and yet they are accused of "fi takthieb", therefore I think "deny" is not accurate enough.
I don't believe that Allah is so severe about deniers only because they deny, because denying in itself is not something bad to get damnation.

General Issues / Questions / Re: Kafirs
« on: February 10, 2016, 08:51:58 AM »
By Denial (of the Truth), I obviously mean/t: Denial of ALLH (The Truth. 22:62) and/or His Signs [...] Just sticking to the topic at hand, while remaining true/faithful to context.



How do you translate the blue part of the next verse:
2:39 وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا وَكَذَّبُوا بِآيَاتِنَا أُولَـٰئِكَ أَصْحَابُ النَّارِ ۖ هُمْ فِيهَا خَالِدُونَ


Introduce Yourself / Re: Hello there..
« on: February 10, 2016, 05:18:19 AM »
Salaam SleeplessInCairo

Welcome to the forum  :handshake:
A lot of us had (or are still in) difficulties after leaving their religion.


General Issues / Questions / Re: Kafirs
« on: February 10, 2016, 05:08:11 AM »

I did not understand what you said :-[
Please rephrase your sentence.

Thanks and may Allah bless you :pr

salaamun bro,

You had this:  أَبَىٰ وَاسْتَكْبَرَ وَكَانَ مِنَ الْكَافِرِينَ

I read it like this: ABAA + STAKBAR + KAFIR     
("+"  = WA)

You read it like this: ABAA +  STAKBAR = KAFIR 
(first WA = "+", second WA = "=")

may Allah bless you to :pr

General Issues / Questions / Re: Kafirs
« on: February 09, 2016, 07:47:14 AM »
The quranic vb. كفر denoting "denial/negation/repudiation" can be easily deduced from context (as a whole, not just 85:19). Ergo. contextually consistent.

If in kfr is a negation then there should be also a form of the word without this negation.

These imaginary scenarios are invalid examples, for they are not cases of KFR/denial (of ALLH and His Signs) !!! You're mistakenly shifting the discussion from KFR (Denial of ALLH andor His Signs) to whether the act of kzb/lying can be morally justified (when facing danger), a different topic altogether !

I thought you took "denying the truth" as the defintion for kfr that's why I gave these examples.
Can you give an example of one who is denying the truth?

True, until recently (more or less a year ago), i used to be a Copernican Heliocentrist like yourself (and the rest/majority). I came to disawn the bubble of helios-centrism since both sense experience and Scripture evince a flat stationary Earth, instead of a spinning, rotating "ostrish-egg" !
GREEN: There are a lot of people who believe in a sperical earth and a geocentric model...

Anyway let's supose you are right with this flat earth and I refuse to believe it despite your proofs, because of my own reasons, am I then a kafir according to you or kathab or maybe something else?
I want to understand what you mean with "denying the truth".

Get out of Babylon.



You tell me not to call you something,


Yes please, I know what I am and I am not a feminist.
But if you insist calling me a feminist then go ahead, I will survive, it was just a kind request.
then you accuse me of posting nudity, according to "YOUR" standards of nudity.As if your couching changes your accusation.

Yes correct, to my standards.

Aside from the fact that you are WAAY off topic
yes correct, this will be my last off topic post in this topic.

and trying to pretend that my intention was to post nudity,
not true, I do not know what your intentions are but I know that you posted nudity (my definition of nudity).

now you resort to accusations instead of sticking to the topic.
Yes true, every now and when I see something that goes beyond my moralities then I can go off topic and sometimes I even accuse someone, it's in my nature.

Is this a joke? Is this the type of people attracted to Quranism??...No wonder Quranists are in a state of disarray and have no sense of morality. No wonder Quranism attracts female chauvinists and libertines, linguistic liars and every class of libertine seeking liberal and intangible religion who seek to reinterpret an ancient book and hoodwink those who are unaware.
I am not a quranist.

Blue: who was the one who posted the youtube film, you or me?
So what should we do with you, how many slashes for posting nudity, I am almost sure that posting nudity in your religion is not done and deserves a punishment.

I thought we would be the best of the best when I came to Quranism. Now, I am starting to see. The proof is always in the pudding. Jaa' al-haqqu wa zahaqal-baatila innal-baatila kaana zahooqan !!!
No quranism is just a sect, probably one of the betters sects but still a sect

As much as I love the Quran and the idea of only following the Qur'an, I think the verdict is in. And it is apparent in ALL of the Quranic spaces I have been in.  Quranism has no moral teeth and no ability to bring its own ummah together. Quranists have NO real commitment to studying, living and understanding the Quran and its language. They actually see religion as barbaric and backwards, which is quite ironic.
Green: I do those things because it's one of my hobbies and because I think I can learn a lot from it, but you are correct that it's not a commitment for me.

There is something in this way that causes severe weakness in faith.

 I think that through the rejection of all traditional islamic sciences, even those that are in line with the Quran, there is an indirect rejection of the prophet Muhammad (saas) while attempting to usurp the book that he gave us from God. It is an attempt to separate God from his messenger (saas).

Allah and His messenger are separated.

This is why Quranists hate to say Ash-hadu anna muhammadarrasoolullahi.
This is why they hate to wish blessings and peace on Muhammad (saas) even when the Quran tells us to do this.
This is obvious in the way Quranist go about all of this.  They revel in the fact that the Quran associates this part of the shahaadah with the hypocrites and despise the fact that the Quran says that the believers bore witness that Muhammad (saas) was true! It is an attempt to disown all of his original and true followers and any knowledge that can be attributed to them.
I see Quranists as a demographic of people who try to take advantage of what they see as ambiguity in the Quran, and who even try to create ambiguity where there is none to please non-Muslims. I am not okay with this.
First thing I think of in the morning is what should I do today to please non-muslims. I feel always very bad when a day goes by and I did not please a non-muslim.

May Allah guide me to the right path. I am really wondering if Quranists are on the right path. I have been on this path for 15 years now and
I am seriously starting to doubt this path. May Allah guide those who seek Him.




It doesn't surprise me that this is the route you took. Of course I am to blame...of course. That's called trolling and it is pretty much the same logic you and other feminists here have been using. Have fun with that!    :nope:  SMH



I blame you only for posting nudity (of course my definition of nudity).

And I am not a feminist, so please do not call me that.

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