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Does Islam allow homosexuality?

Started by Islamo-Aleikum, February 20, 2015, 07:45:15 AM

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JavaLatte

Quote from: Islamo-Aleikum on March 04, 2015, 01:24:55 PM
Also, further proof, King David (peace be upon him) was in a homosexual relationship with Jonathan (may God be pleased with him), which many scholars whom have read the tale considered to be homosexual.

:nope:

Stop spreading slander and lie about the prophet of Allah.

We should be careful when we speak about the prophets.

We should fear Allah. Glory be to Allah.
[33:72] Verily, We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to bear it and they were afraid of it; but man bear it - verily, he was transgressing, ignorant.

es

I haven't read all of this thread as I've been somewhat preoccupied over the last few days, but I have read the first few pages. Anyhow, "Islamo", dude, I think you are purposefully trying to wind people up.



Very funny! Hahahahaha!

Man of Faith

I have never heard of that David would have been homosexual. He had heterosexual relationship since he fathered children.

If a prophet was homosexual by any reason, they would have been monks rather than indulging in worldly pleasure.

Salam
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Hizbullah

Quote from: reel on March 04, 2015, 04:43:24 AM
Just one question, what if these two women got married to each other and then had sex?

two women?

Quote from: reel on March 04, 2015, 04:43:24 AM
I feel its too early to make up mind about whether homosexuality is purely based on choice and thus means going against the nature created by Allah. I am quite used to seeing people who still don't know they are gay, but I have idea about it because of their slanted figures, feminine movement, emotions and voice. Such people are usually bullied by their heterosexual friends for not being "manly". They are hated and separated. But just tell me if how they are is truly their fault?

I believe your are refering to GID

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder
Q:02:32 - They said, "Exalted are YOU; we have no knowledge except what YOU have taught us. Indeed, it is YOU who is the Knowing, the Wise."

Islamo-Aleikum

Quote from: JavaLatte on March 04, 2015, 06:05:24 PMStop spreading slander and lie about the prophet of Allah.

We should be careful when we speak about the prophets.
I haven't, to this date, spread any "slander" or "lie" against any prophets of God (peace be upon whomever they may be). In fact, go and study about the tale of David (peace be upon him) and Jonathan (may God be pleased with him) if you think I am making this up, I am in fact simply reciting the narratives.

You're telling me that we should be careful when speaking about the prophets, then why aren't you? Why are you spewing hatred against homosexuality, hereunder insulting David and Dhul-Qarnayn for their homosexual intimacies with men? That's very hypocritical coming from a self-proclaimed Muslim. 

What do you even know about the prophets of God? What do you know about Job? Have you read the Book of Job? No, you haven't, you probably just know that very much about him from the three verses regarding him in the Quran and that's all you can say about him.

What do you know about Jesus? You call him for the Messiah of the Jews, why? What prophesies of the Torah did he fulfill in order for you, as a Muslim, to accept him for a messiah? Have you read the gospels of Christ? No, you probably only know those few verses regarding him in the Quran.

I have actually studied extensively on all the 25 mentioned prophets in the Quran, as well as the implicitly mentioned prophet Samuel, and all the other prophets thought to be of God - I know about them all from any possible source, these include the Bible, historical records, such and such - you only know whatever gibberish your Sheik tells you and accept even the misinformation he might receive you.

I don't need to speak carefully about them, because I know about them. My life is based on believing the claims from the claimants, how can you accept supposed prophets without even knowing about them? This is an excellent example of blind faith in dogma. I, personally in contrast to you, can't claim to believe in doctrines sent to prophets, when I don't even know about the prophets!

However, I haven't mocked any of their names unlike you.

This dogma and blind faith of yours is the problem in this world, you're so eager to call yourself for a Muslim but you're also too insecure about your faith that you have to distort it in this fashion... it's embarrassing.


Quote from: Man of Faith on March 05, 2015, 12:23:57 AM
I have never heard of that David would have been homosexual. He had heterosexual relationship since he fathered children.
He was a bisexual, he had many wives but he also had a homosexual relationship with Jonathan (may God be pleased with him). This is the same with Dhul-Qarnayn (Alexander the Great), he also had many wives and fathered children, but he was also engaging in male-male sex. That was just something that was normal back then, David's Sunnah included homosexual love with other men and it's normal, natural, not in sex, but it is in love and that's what the story of David and Jonathan is all about... it's about intimate love with other men. You can read the tale for yourself if you are doubting it.

Keep this in mind when people say homosexuality is a sin, are you saying Prophet David was sinful? May God grant us forgiveness, but how many are actually asking for this forgiveness from God? In fact, you're concealing the truth and make lies in the name of Islam! If this is promoted regarding homosexuality, then how is this different from a non-Muslim criticizing Islam by saying Islam is hostile to disbelievers? You're quick to say that's not Islam and no verse in the Quran recognize to kill non-Muslims, but it's fine to call it for Islam to say homosexuality is sinful with no verse in the Quran to justify such a thing? I honestly hope you people will acknowledge your hypocritical dogmas and blind faith... and forsake it.
Quote from: Man of Faith on March 05, 2015, 12:23:57 AMIf a prophet was homosexual by any reason, they would have been monks rather than indulging in worldly pleasure.
How do you know? If that's the case, why did Muhammad marry 13 women and had sex? Are women and sex not part of this earthly pleasure? Also, Dhul-Qarnayn and King David were both engaging in homosexual acts - both are postdating Lot's time.

I don't think you know much about what a prophet should do and not.

PS: even if we are to assume Lot is addressing homosexuality, are you saying that he approved of female-female but disliked male-male? That's ludicrous, which is why the Lot story is obviously not referring to homosexuality but otherwise.

Man of Faith

I am strongly in doubt that the real prophet of Quran would have had 13 wives. It is not in line with the philosophical approach of our faith which is non-indulgence in this world.

Homosexual ties are non-productive and it is why I said that in case a prophet was born homosexual he would not marry but be fully devoted to his line of duty such as Jesus. Although I doubt Jesus was homosexual, he was just detached from his beastly self.

Salaam
Website reference: [url="http://iamthatiam.boards.net"]http://iamthatiam.boards.net[/url]

Islamo-Aleikum

Quote from: Man of Faith on March 05, 2015, 01:36:15 PM
I am strongly in doubt that the real prophet of Quran would have had 13 wives. It is not in line with the philosophical approach of our faith which is non-indulgence in this world.

Homosexual ties are non-productive and it is why I said that in case a prophet was born homosexual he would not marry but be fully devoted to his line of duty such as Jesus. Although I doubt Jesus was homosexual, he was just detached from his beastly self.

Salaam
Khadija bint Khuwaylid, Sawda bint Zamʿa, Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Hafsa bint Umar and Zaynab bint Khuzayma, Hind bint Abi Umayya, Rayhana bint Zayd, Zaynab bint Jahsh, Juwayriyya bint al-Harith, Safiyya bint Huyeiy Ibn Akhtab, Ramla bint Abi Sufyan, Maria al-Qibtiyya and Maymuna bint al-Harith were all the Prophet's wives, they say various of times that they are just human beings too, they don't need to be celibate to be pious, they need to be humble and religious to be pious. Also, Muhammad has sex in order to make Fatimah. Jesus probably married to Mary Magdalene and if not, he was too young to get married - he was an ascetic, mystical hermit.

Also, homosexuality is not only about sex, it's also about love... if you read the tale between David and Jonathan, it is made clear about their intimate connection between two partners that what love is all about. It's very mundane and non-mystical to say sex is only about reproduction, don't you realize sex is also about heavenly pleasure? Read this poem from the early Islamic history:

Al-Suyuti wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the penis of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetizing vaginas."

Homosexuality is not a sin, even if you don't like it. It's fine you don't like it, but that doesn't mean you can throw lies in the name of Islam or conceal the truth that Islam is not against it. If you can do that, we can as well say that it's a sin to not kill disbelievers.

good logic

Peace Islamo-Aleikum.

This is what you said about David:

He was a bisexual, he had many wives but he also had a homosexual relationship with Jonathan (may God be pleased with him). This is the same with Dhul-Qarnayn (Alexander the Great), he also had many wives and fathered children, but he was also engaging in male-male sex. That was just something that was normal back then, David's Sunnah included homosexual love with other men and it's normal, natural, not in sex, but it is in love and that's what the story of David and Jonathan is all about... it's about intimate love with other men. You can read the tale for yourself if you are doubting it.

Are you saying he was committing adultery?

If he was married to "wives" was he also married to Jonathan?Where do you find such evidence?

If he was not married to Jonathan ,then he was cheating on his wives?

Will God be pleased with him?God says" Wala taqrabu "Zina" innahu kana "Fahisha"?

GOD also says:23:5-5-7>
وَالَّذينَ هُم لِفُروجِهِم حٰفِظونَ

إِلّا عَلىٰ أَزوٰجِهِم أَو ما مَلَكَت أَيمٰنُهُم فَإِنَّهُم غَيرُ مَلومينَ

فَمَنِ ابتَغىٰ وَراءَ ذٰلِكَ فَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ العادونَ

You are implying that here also?:

Also, homosexuality is not only about sex, it's also about love... if you read the tale between David and Jonathan, it is made clear about their intimate connection between two partners that what love is all about. It's very mundane and non-mystical to say sex is only about reproduction, don't you realize sex is also about heavenly pleasure? Read this poem from the early Islamic history:


Have you studied Qoran> Are you saying Qoran agrees with having wives and at the same time having intimate relationships with others?

Reading a tale and investigating /checking/a tale are two different things!!!

GOD bless you.
Peace.
TOTAL LOYALTY TO GOD ALONE.   IN GOD I TRUST
38:65″ Say:? I warn you; There is no other god beside GOD, the One, the Supreme.?
[url="https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/"]https://total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/[/url]

Hizbullah

Quote from: Islamo-Aleikum on March 04, 2015, 01:24:55 PM
No, not at all. The current Torah was written for literally millennia after Moses death, whereas he would have lived for allegedly 3000 years ago. The original Torah would have been an stone inscription of the 10 commandments and that's it, all the rest would have been oral sayings by the Priest Moses transmitted through traditions for over thousands years, how much altering would have been able for thousands of years? I tell you, a lot. Even modern historians agree nothing in the current Torah is even remotely the same as that of Moses' original Torah.

According to John Riches, Professor of Divinity and Biblical Criticism at the University of Glasgow: "The consensus of scholarship is that the stories are taken from four different written sources and that these were brought together over the course of time to form the first five books of the Bible as a composite work. The sources are known as J, the Jahwist source (from the German transliteration of the Hebrew YHWH), E, the Elohist source, P, the priestly source, and D, the Deuteronomist source. ... Thus the Pentateuch (or Torah, as it is known by Jews) comprises material taken from six centuries of human history, which has been put together to give a comprehensive picture of the creation of the world and of God's dealings with his peoples, specifically with the people of Israel."

05:44 - I, We sent down the Torah, in it was guidance and light. Judge by it the prophets those who submit, that is, those who are Jews and the rabbis and learned men of religion with what they WILL PROTECT ALLAH?s Book, and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear ME and do not sell MY verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what ALLAH has revealed ? then it is those who are the disbelievers.

The Prophets were the judges, supervising their powers on the Rabbaniyyun, refers to the worshippers who are learned and religious, and Ahbar refers to the scholars, meaning, they were entrusted to protect the Book of Allah, and they were commanded to adhere to it and not hide any part of it OR to sell HIS verses for a small price.

After Prophet Musa, there were others who took that responsibility, Harun Sulaiman Dawood Esa Ayyub Yunus AlYasa'a and besides them were the other messengers [who were not prophets] and rabbis as mentioned above.

Quote from: Islamo-Aleikum on March 04, 2015, 01:24:55 PM
Even if we are to say some things are still the true in the Torah, why should it of all the 5 books that Quran constantly refutes against, the five books filled with polytheistic teachings, historical inaccuracies, scientific inaccuracies, have your specific verse (nowhere to have an analog to in the Quran) be true? Why not one of the many immoral teachings by the crazy rabbis with their barbaric mentalities?

How can you prove out of that verse, out of the five earliest and most historical inaccurate books, contains the certain truth, even though the verse is attributed to different authors of different times and Quran never quotes a similar verse?

And you believe that David who was a Prophet and King, a homo??? You already contradict yourself


The Quran [02:187]

".....They [your women] are your garment and you are a garment for them."


The Quran calls her MUHSANA - A FORTRESS AGAINST IMMORAL, because a man, by marrying a woman, helps him keep to the path of rectitude in his life. It is for this reason that marriage was considered.


The Quran 30:21 - "And among HIS signs is this, that HE has created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them; and HE has put love and mercy between you. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect."


Quote from: Islamo-Aleikum on March 04, 2015, 01:24:55 PM
Also as for my proof, as I said, Quran in 18:80, which takes place during Moses time, calls the two parents of the evil son for "fathers" and pious "believers," meaning that Quran approves of homosexual Muslims and that Lot's individual teachings to his individual people were abrogated by Moses, a millennium later.

Please read

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606834.0

Q:02:32 - They said, "Exalted are YOU; we have no knowledge except what YOU have taught us. Indeed, it is YOU who is the Knowing, the Wise."

JavaLatte

Quote from: Hizbullah on March 05, 2015, 07:33:05 PM
The Quran [02:187]

".....They [your women] are your garment and you are a garment for them."


The Quran calls her MUHSANA - A FORTRESS AGAINST IMMORAL, because a man, by marrying a woman, helps him keep to the path of rectitude in his life. It is for this reason that marriage was considered.


The Quran 30:21 - "And among HIS signs is this, that HE has created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them; and HE has put love and mercy between you. Verily in that are signs for those who reflect."

I LIKE THIS!  :)

May ALLAH bless you, brother Hizbullah.
[33:72] Verily, We offered the trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to bear it and they were afraid of it; but man bear it - verily, he was transgressing, ignorant.