Do you think Ali was a Prophet or, perhaps, God himself?

[es]

In a word, no.

[Momeen]

I am shiyate Ali but I dont find any thing in Ali which could make him god, yes he had impeccable personality and life but to be god? NO

he ate he married he sleep he felt anger he cried he laughed he died ( in worldly way) so no nothing like  GOD but yes he was great MUSLIM and he is Amirul momeenin. alhumdolillah.

so please leave your deviated thoughts and recite kalima shadat once again with repentance.

[wrkmmn]

the Rightful Guardian of the Ummah

peace: islamo, I will recommend you to start forgetting about your guardian, for he died long time ago, and his dusted bones cannot do anything for you.

      الْمُھَیْمِنُ    ?Al-Muhaymin? is one of Allah?s 99 Names. The meaning of Al-Muhaymin is ?The Guardian, The Protector?

creating associates to ALLAH is great sin, so repent, and pray to ALLAH for forgiveness.

may God increase our knowledge and gives us some wisdom.

[FreedomStands]

You don't sound like a Muslim. Muhammad was divine, Jesus was divine, Ali was divine.

Haha devil central.

[FreedomStands]

peace: islamo, I will recommend you to start forgetting about your guardian, for he died long time ago, and his dusted bones cannot do anything for you.

      الْمُھَیْمِنُ    ?Al-Muhaymin? is one of Allah?s 99 Names. The meaning of Al-Muhaymin is ?The Guardian, The Protector?

creating associates to ALLAH is great sin, so repent, and pray to ALLAH for forgiveness.

may God increase our knowledge and gives us some wisdom.

Why? Does this person have some value to you that you want them in paradise? Why should they repent and pray to Allah for forgiveness?

[wrkmmn]

Why? Does this person have some value to you that you want them in paradise? Why should they repent and pray to Allah for forgiveness?

32:3 Or do they say, "He invented it"? Rather, it is the truth from your Lord,  that you may warn a people to whom no warner has come before you ,perhaps they will be guided.

7:164 And when a community among them said, "Why do you advise/warn a people whom Allah is  to destroy or to punish with a severe punishment?" they said, ""In order to be free from blame before your Sustainer, and that
these  might become conscious of Him."."

don't be arrogant despising those who are astray, arrogance is also a big sin.

Luke 18:10-14
10 ?Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ?God, I thank you that I am not like other people?robbers, evildoers, adulterers?or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.?

13 ?But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ?God, have mercy on me, a sinner.?

14 ?I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.?


may God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.

[FreedomStands]

32:3 Or do they say, "He invented it"? Rather, it is the truth from your Lord,  that you may warn a people to whom no warner has come before you ,perhaps they will be guided.

7:164 And when a community among them said, "Why do you advise/warn a people whom Allah is  to destroy or to punish with a severe punishment?" they said, ""In order to be free from blame before your Sustainer, and that
these  might become conscious of Him."."

don't be arrogant despising those who are astray, arrogance is also a big sin.

Luke 18:10-14
10 ?Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ?God, I thank you that I am not like other people?robbers, evildoers, adulterers?or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.?

13 ?But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ?God, have mercy on me, a sinner.?

14 ?I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.?


may God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.

I don't think it is wrong to give the warning, but to persist at it has no good results, I've tried for years and years. It can be called being arrogant to persist against Allah when Allah has deemed them disbelievers, even Noah's son wasn't saved or Abraham's father no matter how much they prayed.

[Pavlov]

Salam Alaikum,

I became a Muslim in 1999 at the age of 39 after investigating Islam for about 4 years.  Although I first read Pickthal's Translation of the Quran in 1995, I soon thereafter met online some Muslims who followed the teachings of Masjid Tucson.  They sent me Rashad Khalifa's translation of the Quran, which I read several times.  I also studied about Sunnism, 12ers Shi'ism, Ismaili Shi'ism, and the classic Mutazilites.  I think it was 1996 or 1997 when there was a controversy at Masjid Tucson after some in that community declared themselves messengers.  In the last 1990s and early-mid 2000s I was on several Quranic Islam forums, despite the fact that I accepted the 12ers Shia Muslim viewpoint on philosophical and historical grounds as well as my reading of the Quran.  I used to make a case for 12ers Shia Islam in those forums, but came to see that it was not a reasonable thing to do.  Also, I came to believe many in the Quranist movement are reasonable Muslims who want to reform and revitalize Islam and Muslims.

Thus, I joined this forum to talk with and get input from those in the Quranist movement.  The only time  I will clarify a belief held by 12ers Shia Muslim is to be sure the belief is accurately described, but I don't  want to do apologetics for the view.

As for Ali Ibn Talib, the 4th Caliph and 1st Imam of all Shia sects, and the best Companion of the Prophet for the Mutazilites, the scholarly 12ers Shia Muslim belief is that Ali Ibn Talib was a man who was protected by Allah, so that he had a pure heart and could give proper guidance to the Muslims of his  time. As many probably know, the 5 Roots of Religion for 12er Shias are 1) Oneness of God, 2) Justice of God, 3) Prophethood, 4) Gudance (Imamate), and 5) Resurrection.  This Mutazilites 5 points differed only in that Enjoining the Good and Forbidding the Evil was the 4th point instead of Guidance.  Enjoining the Good and Forbidding the Evil are for 12ers Shia Muslims in the 12 branches of Religion, the secondary list.  12ers Shia folk religion may have added other aspects, but these are not based on interpretation of the Quran.  The Nizarite Ismaili Shias (Agha Khanites) have given Ali Ibn Talib other attributes because originally they saw Ali as a manifestation of Krishna.  This teaching is how they were converted from Hinduism to Islam, and I reject this teaching.

According to 12ers Shia Muslim teaching, there are Prophets, Messengers (Prophets who are given a scripture by Allah) and Guides who give the proper interpretation of scripture.  There were the 12 Patriarchs of Jacob/Israel, 12 Princes of Ishmael, 12 Apostles of Jesus, and 12 Imams of Muhammad.  God has protected these from sin and gave them special knowledge.  They do not abrogate their Scripture, so any unQuranic or unreasonable tradition said to come from them is fabricated.

Again, I am only reporting the teaching of 12er Shia Muslims, minus the folk religion.  If you believe the teachings of the 12er Shia Muslims on these points are false, that's ok.  I'm not going to try to talk you into  accepting them. If you want to give objective criticism, that's fine, too.  I believe most if not all on this forum want to uphold Islam, and I hope the belief is mutual.

[FreedomStands]

Salam Alaikum,

I became a Muslim in 1999 at the age of 39 after investigating Islam for about 4 years.  Although I first read Pickthal's Translation of the Quran in 1995, I soon thereafter met online some Muslims who followed the teachings of Masjid Tucson.  They sent me Rashad Khalifa's translation of the Quran, which I read several times.  I also studied about Sunnism, 12ers Shi'ism, Ismaili Shi'ism, and the classic Mutazilites.  I think it was 1996 or 1997 when there was a controversy at Masjid Tucson after some in that community declared themselves messengers.  In the last 1990s and early-mid 2000s I was on several Quranic Islam forums, despite the fact that I accepted the 12ers Shia Muslim viewpoint on philosophical and historical grounds as well as my reading of the Quran.  I used to make a case for 12ers Shia Islam in those forums, but came to see that it was not a reasonable thing to do.  Also, I came to believe many in the Quranist movement are reasonable Muslims who want to reform and revitalize Islam and Muslims.

Thus, I joined this forum to talk with and get input from those in the Quranist movement.  The only time  I will clarify a belief held by 12ers Shia Muslim is to be sure the belief is accurately described, but I don't  want to do apologetics for the view.

As for Ali Ibn Talib, the 4th Caliph and 1st Imam of all Shia sects, and the best Companion of the Prophet for the Mutazilites, the scholarly 12ers Shia Muslim belief is that Ali Ibn Talib was a man who was protected by Allah, so that he had a pure heart and could give proper guidance to the Muslims of his  time. As many probably know, the 5 Roots of Religion for 12er Shias are 1) Oneness of God, 2) Justice of God, 3) Prophethood, 4) Gudance (Imamate), and 5) Resurrection.  This Mutazilites 5 points differed only in that Enjoining the Good and Forbidding the Evil was the 4th point instead of Guidance.  Enjoining the Good and Forbidding the Evil are for 12ers Shia Muslims in the 12 branches of Religion, the secondary list.  12ers Shia folk religion may have added other aspects, but these are not based on interpretation of the Quran.  The Nizarite Ismaili Shias (Agha Khanites) have given Ali Ibn Talib other attributes because originally they saw Ali as a manifestation of Krishna.  This teaching is how they were converted from Hinduism to Islam, and I reject this teaching.

According to 12ers Shia Muslim teaching, there are Prophets, Messengers (Prophets who are given a scripture by Allah) and Guides who give the proper interpretation of scripture.  There were the 12 Patriarchs of Jacob/Israel, 12 Princes of Ishmael, 12 Apostles of Jesus, and 12 Imams of Muhammad.  God has protected these from sin and gave them special knowledge.  They do not abrogate their Scripture, so any unQuranic or unreasonable tradition said to come from them is fabricated.

Again, I am only reporting the teaching of 12er Shia Muslims, minus the folk religion.  If you believe the teachings of the 12er Shia Muslims on these points are false, that's ok.  I'm not going to try to talk you into  accepting them. If you want to give objective criticism, that's fine, too.  I believe most if not all on this forum want to uphold Islam, and I hope the belief is mutual.

What are you tempted by?

[Pavlov]

I'm not sure what you mean.  Human beings can be tempted by many things that lead to sin, but with Allah's help we can resist temptation.  I believe that for most if not all of us here, God willing.  If I misunderstood your question, let me know.